26th June 2025
How can technology support dignified, community-led humanitarian action?
Continuing a thematic exploration of humanitarian tech, Ka Man Parkinson speaks with Layma Murtaza and Safi Nurzai from Aseel – a social enterprise reimagining how aid can work through digital innovation, local leadership and global connection.
This is a conversation about systems change from the ground up: the power of coalitions, the urgency of new funding models, and why centring people – not just products or platforms – is essential to meaningful impact.
💬 “I think dignified aid would change a lot – so fully owned and driven by the communities we serve.” – Safi Nurzai
💬 “So if you’re actually dreaming of change… make sure you stay human and continue to build with love, because the world really needs your voice and vision…” – Layma Murtaza
Tune in to hear real-world insights and hands-on inspiration for community-centred solutions, digital innovations, and evolving humanitarian approaches in Afghanistan and beyond.
Keywords: Afghanistan, Türkiye, Aseel, humanitarian tech, tech for good, digital innovation, humanitarian innovation, community-led humanitarian action, localisation, locally-led action, refugee communities, diaspora leadership, crisis response, humanitarian funding, social enterprise, impact investing, purpose economy, fragile economies, economic empowerment, coalition building, supply chains, digital economy, digital inclusion, decentralised aid.
💬 “Partnerships, collaboration and coalition building are going to be at the core of how we’re going to move forward in the aid. The new aid sector the traditional aid model is leaving…we see more moving into philanthropy, and we’re going to see more coalition building within the private sector and within the aid organisations that want to continue working, and that’s going to be able to help us leverage our resources.” – Layma Murtaza
The views and opinions expressed in our podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of their organisations.
Share the conversation
Did you enjoy this conversation? Share this episode with someone who may find it of interest. Please help support us by following Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives on your favourite podcast platform and leaving a review. We appreciate your support!
Feedback/enquiries: please email info@humanitarian.academy or connect with us on social media.
Episode chapters
- 00:00: Chapter 1: Introduction
- 02:53: Chapter 2: Aseel’s origin story and vision for Afghanistan and beyond
- 25:12: Chapter 3: Looking to the future: what would you do with a magic wand?
- 30:39: Chapter 4: Diaspora perspectives: identity, connection and responsibility
- 39:53: Chapter 5: Looking ahead: innovations and collaboration for lasting change
- 45:02: Chapter 6: Reflections on Afghanistan: one thing you should know
- 50:32: Chapter 7: Closing reflections
About the speakers
Layma Murtaza, Vice President Business Development and board member, Aseel
Layma Murtaza is a seasoned humanitarian and international development specialist with over a decade of experience across Central and Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and conflict-affected regions such as Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and Türkiye. Layma brings deep expertise in civil society, local governance, humanitarian operations, gender equity, and community reform.
She has served with leading international organizations including the International Organization for Migration (IOM), Aga Khan Foundation, Danish Refugee Council (DRC), and the International Rescue Committee (IRC), advancing rights-based development and crisis response in some of the world’s most fragile contexts.
Currently pursuing a second Master of Science in International Development at American University in Washington, DC, with a concentration in International Development management, Layma also holds a Master’s in Global Public Policy from the American University in Cairo, where she focused on forced migration and refugee studies. If you’d like to learn more information about Aseel or would like to explore partnership opportunities, you can contact Layma by email.
Safi Nurzai, Marketing Lead, Aseel
Safi Nurzai is Marketing Lead at Aseel. As a frontend developer and multimedia designer, he is passionate about creating visually stunning digital solutions that are user-friendly, intuitive, and impactful. Safi loves staying up-to-date with the latest industry trends and technologies. Safi is based in Istanbul, Türkiye.
Ka Man Parkinson, Communications and Marketing Specialist, HLA
Ka Man Parkinson joined the HLA in 2022 and leads community initiatives including the Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives podcast and the HLA webinar series. With 20 years of experience driving international marketing and communications across the nonprofit space, Ka Man has led impactful campaigns for the British Council and UK higher education institutions. Passionate about creating meaningful change through compelling storytelling, Ka Man crafts audience-focused content that informs, connects and inspires global communities. She is based near Manchester, UK.
Episode transcript
[intro music]
[Ka Man voiceover]: Welcome to Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives, the podcast brought to you by the Humanitarian Leadership Academy.
[Intro music changes, voice of Layma Murtaza]: So if you’re actually dreaming of change, make sure you start small, make sure you stay human and continue to build with love, because the world really needs your voice and vision.
[Ka Man voiceover]: What can happen when technology meets humanitarian action? I’m Ka Man Parkinson and today, I’m continuing my journey of learning and discovery in the world of humanitarian tech. I had the pleasure of speaking with Layma Murtaza and Safi Nurzai from Aseel, a tech driven social impact organisation serving communities in Afghanistan, Türkiye and beyond.
This was a wide-ranging conversation covering not just tech, but reimagined aid systems – locally-led action enabled by a digital economy. In conversation, we also explore impact financing, an approach gaining traction as traditional funding falls short.
What we kept coming back to throughout our conversation was people: the community, the connections, and rethinking how support systems are built. To me, what really stood out were Safi and Layma’s moving reflections on Afghanistan. Their words remind us that behind every system, it’s always about the people.
[Music ends]
Ka Man: Hi Layma and Safi, a warm welcome to the podcast!
Layma: Thank you so much, we’re so happy to be here and talk to you.
Safi: Thank you, Ka Man, it’s so good to be here and thank you for this podcast.
Ka Man: Oh, that’s wonderful, thank you. So let’s start with some introductions. Could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourselves, and maybe the origin story and the mission behind Aseel?
Layma: Sure. So my name is Layma, and I’m the Vice President of Business Development and a board member for Aseel. I was born and raised in California, and now I’m based in Washington DC. And I have a background in international development and humanitarian interventions and management.
Safi: Hello everyone, this is Safi. I am leading marketing at Aseel. I was born in Afghanistan, Kandahar and I was raised there. I was raised actually in Kabul. And then, right now I am based in Istanbul. My education background is computer science, but I have mostly managed multimedia or multi marketing actually throughout my career.
[Music]
02:53: Chapter 2: Aseel’s origin story and vision for Afghanistan and beyond
Layma: The Aseel story begins with the journey of the founder, who is Nasrat Khalid, a systems engineer, humanitarian, and what we like to call a visionary who actually grew up in an Afghan refugee camp.
So his early life shaped his understanding of fragility, exclusion and deep inequality, and it also was solidified during his work at the World Bank. He has a master’s degree in business, and he’s worked with other major institutions like the UN and larger multilateral, and his work kind of took him to 20 different countries throughout Southeast Asia and sub-Saharan Africa, and he studied how technology and infrastructure impact development. And what he saw consistently was that billions of people were locked out of the digital economy.
So that’s what kind of sparked the idea behind Aseel. So in 2017, Nasrat and his small team began building a digital marketplace to empower Afghan artisans, especially for women who have beautiful handmade products, but no global access. So the idea was about selling goods so that there could be economic dignity, cultural conservation and more inclusion.
And so the idea behind Aseel was that it would bridge between tradition and technology, between local talent and global markets. And it eventually became what we see as Buy Good.
And then came the 2021 crisis when Afghanistan collapsed almost overnight. International aid agencies, diplomacy pulled out and traditional aid systems were basically frozen. So Nasrat and his team did not wait. They repurposed Aseel’s infrastructure to deliver humanitarian aid.
And in Kabul you had these amazing developers who were able to quickly create this crowdsource foundation. And that became Do Good. And it’s essentially a decentralised tech powered platform that allows anyone in the world to send food, hygiene kits and supplies directly to people in need. And it’s tracked via our proprietary product Omid ID that’s delivered by local agents called our Atalan network, or who we also call our hero network.
And today we have a comprehensive Aseel model that’s called, Buy Good, Do Good. And it’s like a fusion of ethical commerce and humanitarian aid, whereas Buy Good enables artisans in low resource settings to earn sustainable incomes through global e-commerce, backed with training and cross-border payments and do good replaces the legacy aid systems with a digital first transparent, community-led infrastructure. And this delivers aid with less than 5% overhead in the most hardest to reach areas which is very different than the higher 20-30% overhead that you see in most aid systems.
And so right now, Aseel has impacted over 544,000 people in Afghanistan and Türkiye. It has received the Andrew Rice Award, it’s been featured in PR Time, BBC and TechCrunch, but at its core Aseel is really about technology rooted in empathy, built by people who understand the context designed to include voices that are often let out. And that’s kind of the origin story and where we are today with Aseel.
Safi: I would love to point out something when the invention of Internet happened. It was based on two things. One was connectivity, that we will connect the whole world. And the second important thing was the information access.
So when this is actually really right now, what we are doing, 2.9 billion people are not connected to the digital economy that we are like, really dependent on the moment and access is really important part of it, too.
So there is a really huge demand on each and every home, especially in the most developed world that we call, or the most developed countries or nations that we call. There’s a really good demand that our home has to have stories our home has to have like a different elements from every part of the world.
And since the global market is so diverse, there is so many things in in the part like, let’s say in Vietnam or in Afghanistan, that I think each and everyone would love to have a piece of that handcraft in their home and have that stories of that village or that artisan. So we are kind of actually the promise that Internet has given us that, hey, we will connect the whole world. We are right now working on that promise that, hey the whole world would be connected. Everyone would be on this digital economy, and everyone would be supported through the digital economy that we are right now, depending on.
Ka Man: That’s amazing. Thank you so much, Layma and Safi, for giving us a whistlestop tour through the origin story, the history and mission of Aseel, and how operations and vision are continuing to evolve. It’s so inspiring. And actually, there’s so much, so many angles and themes that we could delve into to today. Unfortunately, we’re limited by time, but there’s so much I’d love to hear more about.
But the story that you’ve talked about, going back to the very beginning feels like very much a story – well, you described your founder as a visionary, and really, actually, I hear that, and I hear resilience, adaptation and agility really coming through to be able to evolve and adapt the model to respond to the context that’s changed, obviously, dramatically and rapidly, over the last 5 years or so.
So I think that there’s so many lessons that you’ll have learned along the way that will be really valuable and of interest to the wider humanitarian community and beyond, particularly because it sounds like what you’re doing is scalable. And that’s the vision that you have as well right, and that other people who are interested in this social enterprise model could learn from you and maybe even collaborate, you know. I don’t know if that is something that you see in the future, enhanced collaborations and partnerships?
Layma: Absolutely, that’s gonna be the future of this this world right now, especially with the recent changes that have happened earlier this year. Partnerships, collaboration and coalition building are going to be at the core of how we’re going to move forward in the aid. The new aid sector the traditional aid model is leaving. It is gone. The private sector is where we see the change happen. We see more moving into philanthropy, and we’re going to see more coalition building within the private sector and within the aid organisations that want to continue working, and that’s going to be able to help us leverage our resources. But if we don’t involve tech, if we don’t involve AI, if we don’t involve the new emerging tools, we’re going to miss out on opportunities to advance people being included in the digital age. And so we want to ensure that the communities that we serve, are also being brought forward instead of being left behind.
Ka Man: That is so interesting, that leads me directly into my next question around the humanitarian funding landscape. And, as we know, we sit at a time and place in 2025, where we’ve all had to grapple and adapt to deep funding cuts and structural changes. So, do you see – well, it sounds like you already think so – but do you see a new model of cooperation emerging between businesses like Aseel, nonprofits, donors and other sectors? And if so, how might that look in practice?
Layma: So I think Aseel right now we believe that the future lies in mission driven partnerships that kind of break down the walls of the barriers that we saw before. So we envision that businesses, nonprofits, donors, and the philanthropic sector are going to start co-creating solutions with communities. And so we are already seeing this shift, and as funding becomes more limited, we see that organisations are inundating the philanthropic sector and asking the private sector to fill in gaps. We’ve had recently conversations with UNDP and special funding initiatives reaching out to us.
To be able to support medium and small enterprises, build up their economic development infrastructure. So at the moment we’re building coalitions that include tech companies, logistic providers, local nonprofits and diaspora donors, not only in Afghanistan but other countries like Türkiye and Syria, and even places in North Africa. And so that’s kind of like where we’re seeing things head forward.
So in practice, this really means co-designing programmes together from the ground up. So we want to make sure that the local context is being followed and we understand the communities and what their wants and needs are because the traditional aid approach was, hey, we have these objectives in this notice of funding opportunity with 5 million dollars. And we want you to bid and tell us how you’re going to reach those objectives. But that’s counterintuitive or counter helpful to the communities in need that maybe we want to give them health programs. But really they need water access.
So why are we not providing those type of needs? So that’s kind of how we believe that coalition building for impact is going to be purposeful. So if we’re really, really serious, we want to make sure that when we’re bringing everyone together that businesses will be the ones offering scalability, efficiency and innovation. And then they can integrate social impact into supply chains financial systems. When we’re working with NGOs and nonprofits, they’re bringing in the community trust programmatic expertise and a lens of equity and justice. And then individual donors and big aid donors they basically, we want to ship them from short term grants to catalytic investments, to incentivise collaboration and shared outcomes and to be able to measure impact and then tech platforms like, I feel, who kind of become bridges connecting the funding implementation and data in real time. So in practice, this means that we want to design programmes that are co-owned from the start. And we want humanitarian initiatives that supports women and marginalised communities that are backed for last mile delivery. And we want it evaluated in a nonprofit or for social impact way in that lens, and then we want it funded by a donor that actually cares about empowerment.
So those are the kind of ways that we see the coalition building happening, and how ideally it would be implemented.
Ka Man: I love that. I like how you called it coalition building for impact. If we could align all these actors who stand behind these shared values and bring to the table, you know what they can offer, and yeah, co-create this impactful new ecosystem, wouldn’t that be, wouldn’t that be the dream.
And I think you draw a really positive and optimistic message there, because obviously the humanitarian sector – it’s been hard – it’s been hard for so many people, so many organisations. So by sharing this message of what might be possible, if people get behind a shared vision with like, I say, like you say, shared values, then I think that’s something that listeners could maybe come away with. And maybe think about shifting the paradigm, and how we might be able to lean into that, aligned, you know, ethically and with aspirations ultimately to support and serve the communities that we all work towards to support.
Layma: So I recently read this quote that was really impactful, I think if I read it yesterday, is that problems are not always like removed right? Like, we can’t fix all the problems, but we can work through them, and we can move past it. And we can build ideas to like, build a bridge over it. And that’s where you’re going to need to leverage resources and leveraging those resources means you cannot do things alone. You have to have a community of supporters, and that’s why coalition building is so impactful.
Safi: I think it’s a human nature from the beginning, like, we always create all we create stuff because we want to share with others. And we are in in this position right now. Through Aseel, of course, that we have built this, this, the system or we pick this system. It’s not just to what we are building right now, and that will support. For example, our team. But it’s a system that can support this whole structure of the amazing work that has been happening for years and years and years.
So we see the structure of Aseel or the infrastructure that we have built is a human nature. So this human nature of creating things for others is always has been it. It always has like better results in any, in any sort of let’s say products or any sort of economical revolutions. Whatever we have at the moment is, if you look into it the moment we have shared this creating things for others. It has brought changes.
So we are working towards that notion, of course, that notion is part of one of the biggest missions that we have is creating the infrastructure and building on that infrastructure so many organisation can build on it.
So it’s not going to be like only Aseel building it, but, like many organisation with us, will build that infrastructure in future with us that would lead into like an ideal world that we are talking about, which is no poverty, of course. Equal societies that we are really looking forward to. And also I’m gonna come back into this digital economy because we are in the future. We are the future. We are going towards the future, and we are living at the moment in the future. So if we can achieve the future in in the present, and for the communities which are right now saying that we are not part of that future that has been built for so many years is what we will achieve. And that’s what we are creating at the moment.
Ka Man: I love that vision, and I’m sure so many people around the world will share the aspiration that you have to bring people in from communities, particularly marginalised communities, and make sure they are digitally included, not excluded, and be able to be part of this.
Linking to this, I was, just before our call, I was on LinkedIn. And I saw someone I’m connected to Ali Al Mokdad, who’s a seasoned humanitarian leader. He’s actually going to be a guest on the podcast soon, which I’m really pleased about. And he talks a lot about – it’s a new term for me, but I’m sure this is what you’re talking about all the time – he’s talking about impact investing this concept of impacting, investing for social good, not just the pursuit of profit. So he said on LinkedIn on his post: “I’m not saying impact investing is the answer. I’m saying it might be part of the answer. Something worth experimenting with and exploring alongside other emerging approaches, models like the hybrid NGO model, my personal favorite joint country programmes, or even the idea of collective lobbying power among INGOs and local actors. We need to give ourselves permission to test, adapt, and thrive, not just within projects, but in how we finance and structure our missions.”
So I thought, I really like that, I thought, wow, that really sort of resonates with the topic that we’re going to be touching on today. And I just wanted to ask whether that resonates with you, were there any thoughts that you have in response to that?
Layma: Yeah. First, I’d like to share that. I love Ali Al Mokdad and his work. I used to work with him at the Danish Refugee Council.
Ka Man: Oh, wow!
Layma: He was such a solid leader. I deeply appreciate his reflections. He’s always forward thinking, and he’s always thinking of the people that we are serving. So absolutely, it resonates with the work that Aseel does in vision, but also operationally. So at Aseel we actually see ourselves as implementers of aid or enablers of commerce, but also as part of a new generation of mission driven organisations and rethinking how impact is created, financed and sustained. So we operate as a hybrid model, and we combine elements of being a startup, a humanitarian responder and an ethical marketplace. So we’re kind of proof that you don’t have to choose between sustainability and service, and we have an AidOS platform, for example, that is both a tool for transparent aid delivery and a system that can be licensed to support through earned income. So that’s where impact investing becomes very relevant and powerful.
And as a startup, we’re always looking for investors who want to support the purpose economy and really delve into that because it’s like a more than a billion dollar economy and space that we can integrate with. So we agree that humanitarian literacy and finance is essential. And if we want to shape how capital enters fragile economies, we have to really understand both traditional funding mechanisms and emerging like venture philanthropy blended finance and even cryptocurrency. That is on the minds of a lot of people. And so that’s why we build schools that are not only like to deliver aid, but we want to also track as a dollar, empower local actors and invite global donors to engage in like data, informed community led giving.
And so yes, we’re absolutely aligned with this thinking, and we believe that the real future is going to belong to those who can build bridges between capital technology and grassroots leadership. And that goes back to our coalition building with all the different dynamic organisations that can work together, and we’re working on building that. And we’re just getting started.
Ka Man: Amazing, amazing! Safie, would you like to share any reflections on that?
Safi: There is a really important part of this purpose economy that we are talking about, and it is so the generosity is growing like on a really rapid space at the moment. If you’re talking about, let’s say on how people are reacting to any kind of disaster, or, let’s say, the governments actually. So I I would not get into the government side, because I don’t have that much of knowledge, but what I have knowledge on is the B2, the I wouldn’t call it the B2C side, but I would call it like the generosity of the people that are towards people. So it’s growing in a really amazing like the growth is, it’s incredible.
Around 400 million people do donations or like, let’s say, transactions that they do to support a cause or anything that is particularly helping the world to be a place where we want to be living in right. And one thing that I would really agree on that side is that since this generosity is growing on a really rapid space, we also need systematical change to kind of juggle around our ways, to support this infrastructure right? So what what Layma has mentioned is really important because this is giving actually, I don’t know how to say it, but like but the core building stone is really actually dependent on the comment that we have right now on this impact economy. So I totally agree with with Layma, and that comment on Linkedin.
25:12: Chapter 3: Looking to the future: what would you do with a magic wand?
Ka Man: You’ve got this solid infrastructure in place. You’ve got this vision. You’ve got people on board. You’ve already achieved a lot, and you spoke Laima, about the impacts of what the business already in its since its establishment. So if you had a magic wand and you could bring on board whatever you need to take and evolve Aseel to deliver what you want it to do, what would you wish for?
Safi: I think so first, I would really transform Aseel into like global infrastructure for ethical commerce of course. The digital economy part is really important. And then a dignified aid which is really important. Like, I say, the faceless transactions is important, but of course it’s contributing to it. But, like I think dignified aid would change a lot so fully owned and driven by communities we serve, for example, right now.
But first, if I had this wand, I would say, like can you please scale the AidOS, our decentralised aid delivery platform, into a universal tool that any frontline responder, for example, diaspora donors or local government could use to deliver aid transparently past, of course, and with dignity. Which comes in our Omid ID. It gives like a really dignified ID, or identification to a person who’s receiving the aid.
And I mean, imagine, in refugee camps powered by, for example, technology and not with traditional slow top-down system that take more than a week or two to design and deploy, which we are right now actually responding to.
So, yeah, I think the digitalisation of this whole infrastructure would be a really important part. And then second, I think Aseel would invest in if this won’t. And I would just let’s say to our business developers say, like I see should like really invest in building artisan ecosystem across all 46 countries, which is like 2.9 billion people living in those 46 countries. They call it underdeveloped countries in many terms. But we are saying, it’s the underserved communities at the moment.
So that means, like local hubs for training, production, payment, excess and export logistic. So the artisans that they have, like amazing art, are scaling businesses globally and changing their lives, their families, lives, of course, and even the villages and communities they live in.
So yeah, I think that would be a really important part of that wand. I really loved Harry Potter, and I think if I could do that [laughs] I would certainly go into it and be like, that’s what we need.
Layma: I would just add one more, and that would be to reimagine Aseel, you as like a learning platform for diaspora communities and friends of certain countries, so that there’s a space where humanity data, local stories and global research kind of intersect and shape better policy and shift narratives about what development and humanitarianism looks like. Wouldn’t be so much formal, but I would want to see it as an inspiration because that’s not really what Aseel does, but I see that there’s a real thirst and hunger from diaspora communities to want to be involved, especially in countries with fragile economy that they want to know how they’re able to support. But they just feel like they don’t have that bridge. So I really want to imagine Aseel to support and build that really strong bridge to bring people together and worlds together. So that’s kind of like on top of what Safi said. I just want to add that little piece, because I think that could create like a really nice magic wand, ecosystem of change.
Ka Man: That’s lovely. So it’s almost like not just extending the infrastructure, so it’s not just the flow and exchange of money and goods and services. But this flow of information exchange to build, share knowledge and build the sense of community around the mission and cause. Is that kind of what you have in mind?
Layma: Yes, because if we’re moving into a non-traditional aid system, it’s no longer about the big donor and then implementer and the community receives. We want it to be an ecosystem of change. We want people who really want to invest purposefully to be involved and feel like they’re meaningfully contributing. And the people that are being served or working together to change their lives also want to believe that they are part of the process. So it’s not just a top-down approach. So I definitely think that there is a lot of learning that we can do in this space.
[Music]
30:40: Chapter 4: Diaspora perspectives: identity, connection and responsibility
Ka Man: So, as you mentioned at the start, Layma, you’re based in the US. And Safi, you’re in Türkiye. So I wondered how being members of the diaspora community shapes and influences your values and the way you work with communities in Afghanistan?
Layma: So I was born and raised in California, and my family came after the first wave of displacement after the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. And because and so, technically, I’m second generation, because my mother was born in New York. My grandfather was an ambassador and but she was still an Afghan citizen, but it has always been a massive identity crisis and conundrum for me, because I always felt like I heard all these stories from my family about how wonderful Kabul was, and their time in Afghanistan, but I never got to touch it or feel it or taste it. So I had this longing of wanting to be there and experience it. And eventually it became the core of who I am. And it impacts everything that I’ve studied, worked on and interacted with.
So when you’re part of the diaspora, you’re in this really unique position that you’re connected to opportunities, tools and conversations that are happening at a global level. But you also carry this deep personal understanding of the struggles back home because you are glued on the news or you’re glued on your academia focused on this.
And so that duality has kind of created a responsibility inside of me and a real sense of genuine purpose that people think I’m crazy for that I continue to want to work. And so for me, growing up in a refugee community in the Bay area and understanding the needs of the community was kind of like the first glimpse into understanding, culture, social hierarchies, and the importance of these complexities. And so I saw both sides of being American and how American and international processes work. But I also knew how to navigate systems, social networks and needs. And so, because I travelled between Afghanistan and the US. And many other countries in between, I saw how systems were designed, and I saw how often those systems failed to reach places like Afghanistan or fragile countries.
And that’s really what drives the work that I do to support solutions that are being created at a local level and expanding that to a global scale. And Aseel was kind of like the platform where we’re attempting to bridge worlds together. And that’s where, like, I feel, I’m in the perfect space to you know, be a diaspora and channel, those global resources, technology and networks back to the communities that I feel deeply accountable for. That’s not just Afghanistan, but it’s every country like Afghanistan that has been excluded from the digital space. And so I really as a diaspora, I honour the people of where I come from, the people in the region of the world that we come from that’s been impacted by 50, 60, sometimes hundreds years of war and need support and building solutions that are sustainable. So that’s kind of the ecosphere of my role as a diaspora.
Safi: I don’t know if I would consider myself as a diaspora. But I think it’s there is a really important, Sir Jony Ive was a really important part of my life. He’s a designer, of course, in Apple and he changed like so many things. And one of his practices while creating a team, and then I was that we would first make let’s say, breakfast for each other every day. So there was like, okay, one person was making breakfast for the whole team. The second day, this second person. And also there was another practice which was to go into someone’s home and then be there and work there.
So and it has two really important impact on a person’s life or a person creativity was that the moment you are in someone’s home, you kind of feel like you’re going to behave. Of course this is the first part, and the second part of it is that you’re going to be always choosing things carefully and also for the host. It’s like, okay, is things perfect is like that, is it that, like you have to be like, always careful around the guests.
And when you are working in that particular kind of environment. What you have is really new ideas, new ideas actually emerged from thinking different right. And I was in Afghanistan, of course, for more than 24 years, or, let’s say, 22 years. And I was in in that situation in those problems I was growing up in the problems, and I couldn’t see it because I was still stuck to the problems that it was kind of kind of like became a normal thing for me. But the moment you join the outside community, or you say that you move to a new community where you can build your own community, of course, of like, let’s say for me, Afghans, but also a global community. Then what you have is like, then you see it as a problem.
Then your thinking shifts towards like, actually, that was a problem that I was living in. And there’s actually a solution for it. Or oh, you know what? There’s different thinking, this different thinking can actually build up a better solution for what I was facing. So I think there is these kind of things were really happening. And then when I joined Aseel then I really knew, like, okay, the solution to the problems that I have faced, and the salute, the problems that I didn’t knew exist is actually being solved by Aseel.
So why not be part of a mission that can not only solve the problems but identify it in a community is really important part of it. So yeah, it’s really great to be part of diaspora. Of course it’s a really privileged thing, I would say, to have it, because there’s some things like Layma described that you cannot connect to it to your homeland because of you are not born there, or you’re not living there. But there is always an important part of you which always thinks like, hey, I’m going to be giving back to where my roots are from.
And then that’s when you are thinking different. That’s you and you are in in a different home. That’s when things sparks. And you’re like, now, let me create something positive for for my community. So I think, yeah, this impact has been happening like a lot.
Ka Man: That’s beautiful. Thank you so much, Safi and Layma for sharing those personal reflections. They made me feel quite emotional, actually hearing you both reflect on that some of what you were saying resonates with me.
I often think how, being an outsider within the humanitarian sector offers a useful perspective. Sometimes I’m relatively new into the sector 2 and a half years. And, to start with, I think I’m not sure what value I’m adding here, because I don’t have these lived experiences, I’m not sure, but actually having a different angle like you were saying Safi, coming at things from a different, you know, looking at it through a different lens can be helpful, and you can see how you might be able to contribute, and where your contribution may be, so that you made me reflect on myself as well, and my own experiences. So thank you so much to both of you for sharing that.
And Laima obviously well, both of you obviously feel very deeply and passionately about this mission and obviously what you’re wanting to achieve, not just to support the communities of Afghanistan, but globally as well. And that’s your vision. So yeah, thank you. But the challenge, probably for both of you, it’s probably quite hard to switch off right at night.
Layma: Before our call today I was telling Safi. I was like, I don’t know how people do 8-hour days because we’re in that startup culture, where there’s so many problems that you just want to fix very quickly. So we’re always on so there is burn out. But we luckily have a great system within a CEO that we just say, hey, we’re burned out. We know what we’re doing. And we know that like it’s time to take a break.
Ka Man: And that’s so important, because obviously, you care so much about what you’re doing. You really believe in it, but believe in it, but obviously you have to take care of yourself. So that’s great that the organisation supports that and gives you that ability to say time out. I need that break.
39:52: Chapter 5: Looking ahead: innovations and collaboration for lasting change
So I’m wondering for listeners who may be inspired, thinking, wow, this sounds like a really positive and viable way forward. Maybe they’ve got an idea of how they can replicate elements or something similar for a social impact organisation in their context. What words of wisdom or sort of key learnings would you like to share with anyone and based on your own experiences?
Layma: This is a good question. And I’m probably gonna give more of a higher level commentary on this, because it’s I can’t give the business model story because it’s going to be very unique to people in this space like they would need to have their own model based on the products that they have.
And so I guess my first piece of advice is to start with the people that you’re serving and not the actual product. So if you want to build something meaningful in the social enterprise, space don’t begin with the tech or the business model. Begin by like listening deeply to the community. What are people actually struggling with? What are their strengths? What do they have? What do they already like have in place to support them. And what support do they need to actually grow to get to what they want? And two, and this is what I learned, what I’ve learned from Nasrat, our founder is like, do not wait for the perfect conditions, and he reminds us to keep moving forward, and that’s difficult for someone like me who kind of wants everything to be perfect before executing, but he knows best, because he’s been operating in this world since 2017, and within a crisis in 2021. So we didn’t have unlimited resources in 2021. But the Aseel team had clarity and purpose and the courage to take one step at a time, and they were successful in that. And so often people think that they need funding media attention or a big team to start. But what you really need is that one person that you can help and grow from there, and a poor lead team that have the same idea and mission.
And then, second, I would probably say, stay rooted in your why? Why are you doing this? Social entrepreneurship is not easy. And there will be setbacks, so there’ll be a ton of rejections and burnout as we mentioned. But if your mission is grounded in service, it becomes your fuel for everything else, and so for the Aseel team, every single employee and team member is creating a system in which they want a world to exist for the people like themselves, their families, but also their communities.
So if you’re actually dreaming of change, make sure you start small, make sure you stay human and continue to build with love, because the world really needs your voice and vision and everything else like the business model, will come after. So focus on the problem and the solution for that problem and be resourceful. That would be my advice.
Safi: I just want to touch down on a really important part of it is, which is the last part of Layma said the problem and the solution. I had a really good conversation with Nasrat and it’s always our founder, and we have this kind of conversation always like there’s two spaces which people are living in when they want to build something, of course, which is the problem space. And then the solution space.
Most people get into this problem space and then just keep building a problem space like it’s really good to be in that space. It’s the best space that you can ever have, because without that space it wouldn’t be. That’s it’s impossible to have solutions right? So if you want to spend time in that problem. Space don’t just get overwhelmed. Actually, in that space that space is the best space that you can have. Just grow in that space.
And the moment you come out of it, and you feel like you know what? That’s the time that I want to move forward into a different notion to find a solution for it. Then you will have much more information on your hand than you when you started. Actually, the problem. So the problem space is really important space being there.
Get really familiar with the problem space. Make yourself in that space like really. Let’s say, comfortable for being in the problem. Space has to be a really comfort zone for someone. Because that’s where great things happened. Actually, yeah.
Ka Man: Thank you, both of you. What I’m really hearing is that you’re emphasising the people. People are sort of really central, and the collaborations and the thinking, the systems and the structures are secondary. So people front and centre, that’s what’s coming across to me.
45:03: Chapter 6: Reflections on Afghanistan: one thing you should know
And just linking to this, just on the human dimension, what’s one thing that you’d like people to know our listeners to hear about or appreciate about Afghan culture or people today.
Safi: First thing first, I would say, bread is ours, the naan [laughs]. That’s it [laughs]. But I think it’s coming from that country. It’s giving you like living. You are basically living in in in the middle of the mountains. And then that country, and when you are in Afghanistan, you are basically living in the mountains. And so there are so many things which is not accessible to you like anywhere else. Right? So it’s really it’s not an easy life per se, because it’s a stone life, let’s say. But there’s always things that really inspires you, and that’s of course the I would not comment on the hospitality, because I’ve never been guest in my own country. But what I would say is the understanding they really understand. The moment you come out and say, like, I want to have a conversation with you right rather than I want you to do something is a really different two things. So the moment you want to have a conversation in Afghanistan, if it’s about anything they would really open up to you, and welcome you to have that conversation with you. I think this is one of the one of the things that I can really proudly carry on with myself and say, like, I’m open to conversation, and that would change.
Layma: Safi, that was like really beautiful. Like you just reminded me that we come from the mountains like, and that I don’t know why that comment just like triggered something inside of me, because it’s natural isolation, right? It’s not something that was imposed. It’s like the geography.
I was going to go into another direction. But I think it is quite beautiful to complement that. And if there was one thing that I want the world to truly understand about Afghan culture is that it’s not just we’re resilient people. It’s not something we endure or go through. But it’s something we actually create beauty from the relationships, the friendships, the romance, the store, like the innovation that comes from all those places.
The Afghan people have gone through unimaginable challenges from conflict, displacement, poverty, their own people turning on each other within civil war. But even in those like harshest conditions you’ll find love, you’ll find art, you’ll find, and art is different for everyone. Right? It’s not the traditional tableau of art. It’s a different type.
Yes, I will say the hospitality because I have been a guest. I will say that the generosity is unimaginable. People have nothing, but they give you everything. They don’t have anything, they’ll give you tea. If they don’t have tea, they’ll give you something else. And this deep rooted pride in community and tradition, whether it’s like our handcrafted carpets or handmade items that have been passed down through generations.
A mother is able to feed her family with dignity in a refugee tent, or a young girl is dreaming, big, with no classroom in sight. But there’s a quiet, like beautiful brilliance inside of each Afghan person that just keeps showing up keeps giving and keeps building.
I remember working in an office in Afghanistan, and there was a 50-year-old man who was like, I just registered for a degree at Kardan University. And I’m like you guys just keep going like there’s a love and thirst for everything. And so we don’t want Afghanistan or Afghan culture to be defined by crisis, although that’s what you see in media. But we want to define by the creativity, the ingenuity, the poetry, the craftsmanship, and their unshakable spirit, that no one, no one can take away from that.
And so I want it to be seen as a location of human potential cultural richness and the voices that really deserve to be heard and celebrated. And you know it’s a secret culture. I call it a secret culture, and the more that you celebrate them, the more that the Afghan people bloom, and I want to continue doing that for them, and I hope people can see them in a different lens.
Ka Man: Oh, wow! I feel the love, the love, the passion, the pride for Afghanistan. Oh, and the people and the culture. Thank you so much Safi and Layma for sharing that really beautiful, really, really moving. And obviously that love drives what you’re doing individually and at Aseel, together with your colleagues and network and partners.
So thank you very much for this really beautiful tour of – visual – aurally of Afghanistan and your work and your mission and your own personal stories as well. I really, really enjoyed hearing you talk today and having this conversation with you.
50:33: Chapter 7: Closing reflections
So just before we wrap up, are there any final words that you’d like to share with our listeners?
Layma: If anyone listened to this, podcast is interested in learning more about Aseel, you can definitely go to www.aseelapp.com, you can reach out to myself. I’ll share my email to Ka Man. And we would love to continue exploring opportunities for partnerships to scale up. We want to support as many people as possible. That is our mission and our vision. And so we do not discriminate in location or geography. We just want to make sure that you have the infrastructure to support and scale as many communities as that you can. So we’re happy to be here as a resource and support and potential partner for change.
Safi: Thank you so much, Ka Man, for having us. It was incredible conversation with you and learning, of course, like always learning from Layma, from you and saying things, hearing things was really important. Yeah, I think it’s really important that we keep this momentum up like, I say that with the world is really generous place, and it’s getting generous every day. Let’s keep that momentum. Reach out to us. Aseel is part of that mission. We are launching in these countries. And we are gonna connect this 2.9 billion people with this infrastructure that we have built together and be part of it.
[Music]
[Ka Man voiceover]: Big thanks to today’s guests, Safi Nurzai and Layma Murtaza from Aseel. I really appreciate their openness and candour, and hearing their ambitious, strategic ideas grounded in lived and shared experiences. I think their voices are important for us to listen to, especially as we adapt and rethink the future of humanitarian action.
I loved what Layma shared about coalition building for impact – it’s a powerful reminder of why we need to look beyond traditional models as we collectively navigate the challenges ahead.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives from the Humanitarian Leadership Academy. Please support our podcast by liking and subscribing on our platforms and consider leaving us a review.
[Music ends]
Note
This transcript was generated using automated tools. While efforts have been made to check its accuracy, minor errors or omissions may remain.
Episode produced by Ka Man Parkinson, June 2025.