28th July 2025
What happens when traditional leadership models meet the complex realities of humanitarian action?
💭 “Being a leader, especially in this sector right now – it’s not clear. We are all struggling and trying to find answers to big questions…I think the main important part is to try to sit and think and reflect…it’s important to keep your eyes on the North Star, on the long-term goal, but also look at the present – how to deal with what’s happening now while remembering the big picture.” – Ali Al Mokdad
In this first instalment of a two-part podcast, seasoned humanitarian leader Ali Al Mokdad invites you to both learn from his experiences and challenge his thinking.
In this extraordinary conversation with the HLA’s Ka Man Parkinson, Ali delivers humanitarian leadership insights from extensive field and headquarters experience across multiple contexts, on a global journey from Syria to Denmark. His digital thought leadership reaches 90,000 people monthly, going beyond polished statements to offer practical guidance for leading in complex environments and making difficult decisions.
An authentic conversation on humanitarian realities
This honest and at times raw conversation tackles personal and humanitarian realities head-on. Ali speaks to major sectoral themes such as meaningful localisation, decolonisation and power. Drawing from his own lived experience operating within and outside of the humanitarian system, Ali offers unique insights paired with pragmatic, action-oriented possibilities.
Discover Ali’s approach to ‘inviting in chaos,’ maintaining values under pressure, and leading with vulnerability in demanding professional contexts. This conversation is essential listening for humanitarian leaders in 2025.
In part two, Ali switches gears to share strategic insights and predictions based on his research and experiences. Tune in!
Keywords: humanitarian leadership, INGOs, funding cuts, aid sector, humanitarian reform, systemic change, displacement, localisation, power dynamics, conflict sensitivity, Global South, leadership style, authentic leadership, leadership paradigms, thought leadership, digital influence, community collaboration, identity, lived experience.
Chapters
00.00: Chapter 1: Introduction
02:00: Chapter 2: Ali’s personal journey: a candid exploration of power, identity and leadership mindset
25:17: Chapter 3: Thought leadership in the digital age: Ali on the power of authenticity and vulnerability
48:11: Chapter 4: Leading with humanity through complexity
66:05: Chapter 5: Ka Man’s closing reflections
The views and opinions expressed in our podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of their organisations.
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About the speakers
Ali Al Mokdad is a strategic senior leader specialising in global impact operations, governance, and innovative programming. With a global footprint across the Middle East, Africa, and Asia, he has led complex humanitarian and development responses through senior roles in INGOs, UN agencies, donor institutions, and the Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. Ali Al Mokdad is known for driving operational excellence, advancing inclusive governance, and designing people-centred programmes that hold both purpose and impact at their core.
Ka Man Parkinson joined the HLA in 2022 and leads community initiatives including the Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives podcast and the HLA webinar series. With 20 years of experience driving international marketing and communications across the nonprofit space, Ka Man has led impactful campaigns for the British Council and UK higher education institutions. Passionate about creating meaningful change through compelling storytelling, Ka Man crafts audience-focused content that informs, connects and inspires global communities. She is based near Manchester, UK.
Episode transcript
Chapter 1: Introduction: 00:00
[Intro music]
Welcome to Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives, the podcast brought to you by the Humanitarian Leadership Academy.
[Voiceover, Ali]: And I was like, I just want to see one leader going and saying, you know what? It’s tough, it’s challenging, it’s a difficult situation. And I’m trying to figure it out. Like it’s, I was looking for that vulnerability to also validate how I felt and to feel like, okay, I’m not alone in this. Because the power of community, and when we are feeling like, okay, I’m not alone in this, we can do something together, we can, it is so powerful.
[Voiceover, Ka Man]: Today’s episode is one with a difference – one that I believe is essential listening for humanitarian leaders in 2025. I’m Ka Man Parkinson, and I recently had the privilege of sitting down with Ali Al Mokdad, an independent senior humanitarian leader. Ali may need no introduction to many of our listeners – perhaps you’ve worked with him at an NGO or possibly interacted with him online as a thought leader in the digital space.
He’s operated across the humanitarian system in 13 different countries, as well as having lived experience of displacement, giving him a real depth of insights to share.
In this first part of our two-part series, Ali shares his powerful personal story and journey across the sector. He speaks to crucial themes of meaningful localisation, decolonisation and power – while offering practical guidance for leading with integrity and authenticity.
Tune in to the conversation, and prepare to be challenged and inspired.
[Music fades]
02:00: Chapter 2: Ali’s personal journey: a candid exploration of power, identity and leadership mindset
[Music]
Ka Man: So Ali welcome to the podcast!
Ali: Thank you for hosting me. It’s really, it’s amazing podcast. I like it, I like listening to it, and I think you are doing an amazing job with that.
Ka Man: Oh, lovely, thanks so much for the positive feedback, that’s lovely for me to hear.
So let’s go straight into the conversation, I’ve got so much ground to cover with you, and so much I want to ask. Could you tell us your story? What’s your background, your professional interests? And, oh, it might be hard for you to say, but if you can pinpoint one, has there been a defining moment for you as a humanitarian, and how has that shaped you as a leader?
Ali: Um, I want, let me go back in time. So I was born in the Global South, in Syria, in a family that was somewhere between middle class and lower class, mainly living pay cheque to pay cheque. My father formula for success is simple, which is work hard. My mother formula for success is education. And my community where I grew up in Syria, their formula for success and for a happy life is around the power of community, the strength and the resilience, and being close and taking care of each other. So in my early years, in my childhood, and and when I was a teenager, I adapted that mix of understanding of what a good life, and being successful mean. And it was shaped by my father words my mother values and and and the way my community show happiness and survival and succeed.
So when I joined the humanitarian sector, it wasn’t a job for me – it was a sense of responsibility. I joined as a volunteer. I didn’t even know that it’s a sector, it was just, I was joining community initiatives or volunteering activities, and it was mainly to to do small things to support the people around us. And as I mentioned, it came because of my community understanding of taking care of each other.
But later a few things happened in my life, and I decided to do that for living. So I started my journey in in the sector as a national staff. And I spent several years working with local organisations and then international organisations and mainly focusing on mental health, wellbeing, psychosocial support and working in community centres.
And then suddenly, I started seeing a glass ceiling. And that was unfortunately the bias, the discrimination between international staff and national staff, and I couldn’t feel empowered enough. I couldn’t feel that I was seen or heard within the organisation, mainly because I was a national staff.
So I decided as a reaction to that is to invest more in my learning, in my development, trying to understand the sector more, trying to explore different ways to learn different things, and that took me to do so many e-learnings because I didn’t have access to that sector related education. So I’ve done so many trainings, e-learnings, I invested so much in reading and understanding, hoping that the education – which was my mother formula would help me – and hoping that working hard, which is my father formula would help me. It didn’t.
But anyway, many things happened. I was displaced from my home after the conflict. So I had to flee my home. I lost my home, I lost my job, I lost all the things that I have. I left. I lived in a camp. And then after that, I found my own way to survive that. And I went back to the sector. But this time I started taking international assignments. So I was stationed in different locations in Middle East, in Asia and Africa. I took several roles, mainly programme leadership roles as a programme manager, programme coordinator or programme director. I also took operational roles as area manager, area director and country director and chief of party. And I moved between different locations like Afghanistan, South Sudan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, cross-border operations from Türkiye to Syria, cross-border operations from Jordan, and different locations and different assignments.
But then I saw another glass ceiling, and this time it was a bit different. So it was mainly again another shape of bias and discrimination, and it was mainly between an international organisation and the local organisation, and internationals among each other. So if you are an international from the Global North, it’s a bit different if you are international from Global South. And again, I went back to my set of tools, which was hard work, investing in myself. And I learned a new thing at that time which was investing in the team I’m working with. So I changed. I adapted my formula with the hope of breaking that glass ceiling.
So I decided to shift my focus and try to look at a bit higher level also because I had a sense of responsibility to make a change, maybe policy change, maybe a direction change. So I stepped into regional roles. I stepped into headquarter roles, and then from there I started taking roles like head of grants management, head of policies, processes, and tools. I joined different organisations as a board member, and right now I am supporting different organisations as a board member, as an executive advisor, and trying to advocate for making that change.
So telling you that, it is one of the things that maybe you could see from this story or from my life direction, is that many of my decisions in my early life and mid-career were driven by identity more than strategy. So I was trying to explore who I am, where I sit in the sector, what are my values, what do I want to do to break those glass ceilings to support others?
And at several moments in my life there were times where I realised that my passion alone is not enough. I need to have a strategy. And that’s when I started looking what type of shifts I want to make, and what type of organisations I want to work with, and what type of leaders I want to collaborate with, so that I could achieve those things that I’ve been carrying since my early career time.
So to go back and answer the moments or one moment that shaped how I look at things or how I see things – I have many. I have hundreds of hundreds of stories and moments and things that made me change how I look at things and see things and and all that, but there is one that I want to share today which was when I was living in a camp.
So earlier to that I had a career. I had a stable job. I had a house, friends, network, very good social capital in my city where I was living, and even I got a promotion, and I had solid foundation. One day I lost all that due to the conflict so I ended up living in a camp.
I found myself in a small tent in a camp in North Syria, and in that tent I was sharing it with other men. We didn’t even know each other names, because for safety and and different things. So we would call our each other like different nicknames or whatever, and in that tent I was, like all of them, struggling to survive the day-to-day things, struggling to try to find hope which didn’t exist, and struggling to feed myself basic things.
And what was making me excited most of the days was when an NGO staff, they would come and do some sessions, because that was it feels like they are, you know, NGO, I feel like they are my community. And I felt like, you know, I’m part of that. And they could see me because I felt so much unseen among all those people that we were just struggling there, not knowing what’s ahead of us?
And those NGOs would come and do awareness sessions. And one of those awareness sessions was hygiene promotion related.
So I would, so they would, they would come, and they would host the session and attend. And I would join feeling a bit excited because I kinda knew what they are going to talk about and that’s mainly because I was designing such sessions, and I was leading teams that they were doing similar sessions. And I felt like they are going to validate my existence when they see how good I am in knowing what they are talking about, and they were always asking me to demonstrate how to wash my hands so they would ask me to show the others how to wash my hands.
And I think one of the things that I always felt so painful, and I thought about it many times how because I was just living in that camp in that tent joining those sessions, they only saw me for someone who didn’t have anything, who don’t have anything, and who will not have anything. I was seen naked of all my past achievements, of all my knowledge, of all my skills, of all my potentials, of my hope, and sitting there, and and and feeling that they didn’t care what my past and they only looked at my present without having that hope of what I could be in the future.
And you know it’s not about those employees that they were doing because they were just doing their job. It’s about how those projects are designed to deliver a checklist to deliver that toolkit, that thing that they have their material to raise awareness on how to wash your hand without looking, that just few days before I was leading operations, I was designing such programmes. And I had all that life. So it made me question how do we see the communities that we serve?
And recalling the materials that they were using. It was mainly some materials where they had some posters and pictures of people in a tukul around the river, and it feels so much like they are talking about a context in Africa. And they were giving messages for a totally different context. So it made me also question how we design those programmes and how we copy-paste those things.
And adding to that, I remember one time I asked one of the facilitators, and I mentioned trying to say that, oh I am, I was working with an NGO, I know it’s this. And he told me to go and get an NFI kit and then he said, go also get a blanket because it’s going to get cold. And I was telling him that I don’t need that. I’m going to leave this place, and he was like, no, no, go get it like, and I was like, but I don’t. I don’t need that, I’m going to leave this place. And he kept saying that everyone here say that they are going to leave this place, but they didn’t. So, remembering that, it also breaks my heart how there was this complex situation where the idea of staying was a bit more enforced of the idea of breaking through that cycle and surviving.
So all those things that I mentioned in this story in this moment always hunts me and and and makes me a question, how do we design programmes? How do you look at communities we serve? How do we support the positive deviant there? Because I am considered as a positive deviant in my society and the place where I go, and so many other things, and later on in my life and in my career, I saw many people like me, and I saw many people way better than me. And I saw those communities that they struggled in similar ways, and all those different things.
So what I’m trying to say here is that one of the moments that I want to share today is the moment I looked at things from the other side from the service receiver, from the beneficiary side, from the community that’s waiting for the NGO to receive the service, and I always try to, you know, have perspective from different angles. And that one of the things that shaped my journey and my story is is the the ability of looking at things from different perspectives. And that’s mainly because I experienced that firsthand. So I experienced being a service receiver or the beneficiary, I experienced being a local staff, a national staff I experienced being an international staff I experienced being headquarter or regional office employee. I experienced being working with local NGO or international NGO or the UN, or Red Cross Red Crescent or a donor institution. I also experienced the different countries and working at site level, mobile team, area level, country level, regional level, cross-border operations and headquarter. So those different experiences gave me different perspectives and shaped my journey.
That’s a long answer for the first question, but I just speak from the heart, and I just wanted to say what comes to my mind.
Ka Man: Ali, thank you so much for for that, like you say, speaking from the heart, so candidly, authentically – just being so open. I felt very moved by your words, and thank you for opening up and sharing that, sharing your story. There’s so much, there’s so much we can unpack there, and I don’t feel like any response that I’m going to say actually gives it the justice. the experiences that you shared. The themes that I sort of hear coming through are very much the conversation, the story that you took us on I feel, is a very much around identity and and power. Who holds the power in the system? Who gets to make the decisions? Humanitarian principles of do no harm, obviously, we’re all working to this tenet, that’s a – but what you’ve described is the system that you were part of in many different ways and continue to be – it has, it does cause harm, it does cause harm in different ways, from maybe what we could call very small microaggressions – I’ll put that in inverted commas – well intended actions, through to more systemic harms, like you say, the bias in the system, the glass ceiling, being an insider, yet an outsider – not having a seat at the table when maybe at times you should have been there. Whose voice do we listen to?
There’s so much we can really, really, really explore. But your, what comes through is obviously as a leader, you’re driven by and shaped by these experiences – profound experiences – and you live to those values. That’s your guiding compass in what you’re doing. Would you say that was, would you agree with that?
Ali: Yeah, I it is. It is one of them I told you, like my values came from those different experiences. I think very important thing for me to say here, and it is also one of the things that I hope the listeners would would think about when they hear that answer. Please don’t see me in that story as a victim. When I mentioned about being in a tent, when I mentioned trying to chase food, when I mentioned trying to, you know, be able to sleep, just rest one night, when I mentioned trying to get validation from an NGO. Don’t see me as a victim. Please look at the survival and the strength that I had to break all those different glass ceilings and glass boxes. Because when I was pushed back, when I was a national staff, pushed back and laughed at, as international staff, and the manager is only an international staff is national staff – I broke that glass ceiling, I became a manager. I became a leader. I became a director. When that NGO employee said, everyone says they will leave, but they don’t leave, I left. I survived. I left that tent and I built from there. When I was discriminated and pressured again – this international staff from Global North, international staff from Global South, and all that – I broke that, I kept progressing. When I was again pressured by another glass ceiling, because where I come from, and my passport and my ability to travel. And oh, you can’t go here, you can’t go here – it’s very difficult to get your visa is that I broke that. And again and again and again and again to the level where I sat on the largest Danish NGO Board, one of the largest NGOs in the universe. So imagine how many glass ceilings I broke and the strength to break that. So that’s why I’m saying, look at my strength when you hear that story and look at the survival skills. Not how otherwise, you know, victimised, or beaten by different systems.
I was unseen and unheard in so many cases, but I managed to be like, no, you are going to see me. You are going to look at me. You are going to notice me. And you are going to see my potential. So it’s exactly what you said. And I want to add that, please, when you hear those stories, not only my story, all the other people’s stories. Look at the strength, the ability of breaking those glass ceilings and glass boxes.
Ka Man: It’s incredible, Ali, what I mean, you probably might – I don’t know whether you want the label of resilient and adaptive, and these descriptors. I don’t know if you want that attributed to you, but that’s certainly what I hear. And you might not want to be called inspiring, I don’t know, but it certainly is. Thank you again for being just so open and candid, and just speaking from the heart. You said that because you’ve got all of these different experiences and identities as you’ve just described, this gives you this ability – what you draw from that is this ability to relate to lots of different people – to see things from many different vantage points, whether that’s from this role of official power to as a person just on a really fundamental human level. So you see it from all of these different perspectives.
25:17: Chapter 3: Thought leadership in the digital age: Ali on the power of authenticity and vulnerability
And I know we were connected because I saw you on Linkedin, you use this as a platform regularly to share your thoughts and opinions. You’re pretty prolific, aren’t you? You’re sharing, and you’re writing, and you’ve had incredible engagement, haven’t you, incredible response to what you’re saying. Just like you’ve opened this conversation, your words, the written word is incredibly emotive, yet it’s coming from a place that is grounded – I perceive – in pragmatism. So you’re telling the story, but you’re actually signposting to, you give optimistic practical messages. You’re giving steps and potential roadmaps for people to explore and consider.
So I wanted to ask you why did you choose to communicate through these posts on this platform? And if there are people listening, I think Ali has a gift for expression, and I want to know how I can do something like that and learn to tap into my own experiences, what kind of words, advice can you share with them?
Ali: So to answer that question, I want to tell you a bit about how my day looks like. So I spend so many hours in my day speaking to people in different locations at different levels, so I speak to people who are sitting in Kenya, for example and and working with a local organisation and trying to shape how they design programmes and all that. I speak to people sitting in India, others who are sitting in Lebanon and Jordan. I speak to people who are sitting in UK or Denmark trying to look at policy level and and how to work on that. And I engage with all of them in different capacities who are part of the humanitarian development sector.
But I also engage so much with diplomats in different locations, and some they are working with within like international affairs and and foreign policies, others they are working within their government policy level. And I also speak with business leaders and speaking and engaging with those different people gives me some kind of like an overview about different subjects and because my day is organised in a, my day is organised daily based on topics. So I have time in my day to look at governance related topics. I have time in my day looking at localisation. Another time looking at AI and digitalisation. Another at foreign policy and international affairs, another, etc etc. So this gives me some kind of like, an overview of different things, how they interact with each other and the perspective.
So what I try is to take some of the information that I’m getting and the trends that I see, and the knowledge that I’m gaining through engaging with those different people and translate it into a message that I can share it with the wider community, because, as I mentioned, I feel responsible of sharing that knowledge, and because in my earlier career I was looking for someone or an institution that could share such things.
And so I try to share that perspective. And I do that in in different shapes and different ways. So I have published academic based research, one around localisation, one around NGOs, within the economic situation, one around AI, one around governance, etc. And I do that as a contribution to policymakers, to to have informed decisions to students, etc, etc.
I also do analytical articles, and I try there to share an overview of a situation, analyse it so that you know you build your own opinion about it. I’m just sharing the unbiased information, exploring topics from different angles.
But one of the things that I enjoy the most, and that’s you will see that on my LinkedIn, and I think the listeners they could see that and and read that is, when I just share things from my heart. And the main reason why I do that, because one, writing is my own way of reflecting on topics. Two, because I felt so much let’s say, I felt a need, especially in our sector to see how people are reacting and reflecting on certain issues. And that’s mainly because the mainstream media platforms or social media platforms, or the leaders that we have in the sector at top level. You know they are sharing those polished statements, and sometimes you feel like, how do you feel, like I understand the, you know the analytical part of it. But how do you feel as a leader? Do you feel the same vulnerability that I feel? Like I find it difficult to you know, to relate to some of the things that they are there. So I feel like I want to share with people, how I feel, how I think about things, how I’m also struggling with some things, how I’m also trying to make sense of what’s happening, how I’m also trying to also see hope and all that.
But I do it in a way where I share the message from the angle where you could see how I feel, but you could also see how I am realistic about what’s happening now, but how I’m also optimistic that we can do something. We can make a change. And that’s how and why I write so many things there.
I don’t consider myself as an author, I consider myself as a storyteller who’s trying to share a perspective, trying to share with you some information, try to give you analysis of what I’m seeing and exploring through different conversations and trying to tell you a story. And then I’ll leave it to you to build your own opinion, your own thoughts, and all that.
I have to admit that I sometimes I feel surprised how many people they were waiting and looking for something like that to validate how they feel because they are suffering or struggling in silence, and they are not sure if there are people like them.
Other times I feel surprised about how those few words or one article, it’s finding its way to the hands of a policymaker or a business owner or a leader in an organisation. And how different people interact with the writing in different ways.
And just to mention something like today I was looking at my analysis only on LinkedIn, not the other platforms, and I found around 90,000 people in one month, they had access to my articles, either they read it or they shared it, and I was shocked. 90,000 individuals, they put time to read those words. And it might they might, you know, when, when they saw that some of them might left with disappointments, other they might lift with inspiration. Other they might, felt better, other they might felt worse, other they want to take an action. But 90,000 people. And I receive hundreds of messages and questions and reflections, and all that, and I was surprised that there were there were sometimes earlier this year, I was just sharing a perspective, in what do you do to make your HQ efficient. What do you do to make your strategy process a bit more efficient? What do you do and I was shocked that they are teams at high level like HQ level, high leadership roles in organisation, they use those articles as a reflection tools, and I received so many comments on something like that. But again these things they make me feel sense of one, I am humble that people are putting time from their day to read and think and reflect. I’m also proud because technically many of the things that I share, I’m just translating wider global perspective that came from different individuals and organisations all over the globe.
So I feel proud that that people show those messages from the different people in different organisations and different roles. But I also feel responsible of doing more, because I could see how it is making a positive impact. Sometimes it’s small, tiny, but for me, and you know, one CEO told me once you know what, as long as I’m making a positive change in one person life, I will continue doing that. So for me, I feel like maybe someone somewhere will be inspired, and that’s more than enough for me. And and again, it is also driven by my own experience, because, you know, in my early career. I sometimes laugh about this. I used to write LinkedIn messages to so many leaders and try to tell them, can you give me an opportunity like, can you see my like, I tried like, can I work for you for free? Because I just wanted to learn and all that, and because I see how many times I spend so much time in understanding a subject, analysing it and all that. So I feel like, maybe I’m giving a resource to some people in a way or another.
And again, I like doing that like, I like, you know, writing about something, reflecting, thinking about it and sharing with a wider audience. And because I do feel sometimes the mainstream media and the different platforms are a bit censored, or they are a bit extra polished. So I try to do that through my writing. But it’s always my hope to inspire someone to reflect or think, or taken an action, and for someone who wants to do something similar, or even to do more. I hope they do more, I would say the first thing is, do something. Like, don’t just think about it, go and do something, write it, have a podcast, record a video, have a YouTube channel, start – do something. It’s okay, no matter how you know, if it was small, if it was large, if you had many people listening in the beginning, if you have only few reading in the beginning or listening. Just start and then you will learn by doing, because, like, if you read my earlier writing, I am like, wow, did I write this? Why, it’s like, I sometimes feel like, wow, it’s not structured, so many mistakes, so many it doesn’t, I don’t feel anything there. I feel it’s missing something. It has some kind of like bias in the text it has. So I think you know, you will learn by doing, and of course you can always reach out to me. I’m more than happy to support, and many they do that actually. And I do my best to respond to all the messages and all the emails that I receive because again, it’s my one of my goals is to inspire you and I’ve met several people who started and I was surprised by the number of people that they also saw wow, that’s really interesting, that’s a good way of articulating a topic that’s nice to have different voices, that’s XYZ. So I would, I would say, just go start. And leverage the different tools, leverage the networks reach out. If there’s something I could do to support you. And and the main important thing is also to ask yourself why you want to do it, and then just proceed. Take action.
Ka Man: Sounds like, from what you’re describing, that you really are modelling vulnerability in humanitarian leadership. That it’s not only okay to show your vulnerability, but actually, it’s what people, it’s what’s resonating with people. It’s what’s needed. So it sounds like a shift in traditional models of, you know, strength, and maybe even militaristic type leadership models, you know that paradigm of strength. Strength in vulnerability is what you’re modelling through your communication and through how you’ve described your work so far.
Ali: Exactly, 100%. I think one of the things that made me a bit frustrated earlier this year, when when the funding, when we, you know, after the USAID cuts and the funding went down, and hundreds of of employees being terminated, and so many countries being neglected, and communities are not going to receive support and all that. And I was just reading statements.
And I was like, I just want to see one leader going and saying. You know what? It’s tough, it’s challenging. It’s a difficult situation. And I’m trying to figure it out like it’s I was looking for that vulnerability to also validate how I felt and to feel like, okay, I’m not alone in this, because the power of community. And when when we are feeling like, okay, I’m not alone in this, we can do something together, we can, it is so powerful.
And I think that’s one of the things that was missing. I like how you you put it. I fully agree, I think, and I sometimes feel like, can we feel a bit sense of vulnerability, and see, how do you feel? Because sometimes, seeing all those polished statement, they make you feel also what’s wrong, is it me? Am I not like, is there something I’m missing, or something?
But yeah, I fully agree. It is my hope that more people speak up more people share their opinion, more people share their perspectives and all that. And, to be honest, I think it’s totally fine. I mean what would what’s what would happen. I think for me I find it a very good and and positive scenario and positive case, because in at that time we will fear we will see the humanity like the human feelings and and thoughts, and and all that, not only like polished statements that it’s very difficult to relate to.
Ka Man: I find it quite interesting – the contrast, when you were talking about your earlier career, where you were so eager for this recognition. You had a strategy to acquire certain roles and development. So you were looking for that authority, leadership to recognise you, notice you, see you and reward you accordingly. This approach to leadership – digital leadership can I call it? Through this thought leadership, through your LinkedIn posts, for example – you’re not looking for that validation from people in authority necessarily, you’re writing for people. You’re trying to reflect your experience in giving people what they want to hear or need at this time, which is obviously really hard.
So I almost see you as like this organically, digitally-elected humanitarian leader [laughs]. You’ve got this digital crown. You may not have chosen it [laughs]. But you’ve been selected. You’ve been chosen, which is a contrast, and maybe that reflects the age that we’re in. You know, through your platform, you can reach this 90,000 people in one month, like you said. it’s an interesting emerging leadership approach.
Ali: Yeah, could be, I really don’t know, like, I don’t have all the answers. I always try to look for questions more than trying to find answers. But I think it’s, I do find it interesting. Because, you know, I wrote this book. I published it by myself, and and the main reason why I did that, because a publishing house and other platforms, they said, no, we want to edit it. And I was like, that’s exactly how I felt, you want to edit my emotions, I don’t find it applicable. So I was like, you know what, I really don’t care. I want to put it out there, and in one week, just one week, it became the number one hot release on Amazon, in different countries in US, in Canada, in UK, in Scandinavia, in Germany, in different locations, I got messages from so many places, and then in less than 10 days it became bestseller, and it keeps like banking again. And I sometimes I’m like, I don’t even know how that happened, because it was I just had some feelings and thoughts and reflections, and I put them and I wrote them and put them out there. And then, I was like the messages I received about how the people are using it as a reflection tool, how it spoke to so many people, how people felt it, how people, it’s guiding them in taking some actions and all that. So sometimes I am surprised how it’s reaching the others. But I think in a simple thing, I think that’s one of the and powerful things that comes from sharing a vulnerable, honest direct message from the heart to the heart.
And I’m doing that. I think also, I just want to mention something that I was also one of the things that surprised me. It happened over a year ago. So I was part of this global employee representative for a large international organisation. And I decided to go for the election. And my goal was mainly around employee, wellbeing, work, environment, diversity and inclusion and try to optimise things.
So the election started, and then, when I saw the results, so first, I won. But I got the highest number of votes in the organisation history since the sixties and the engagement in the voting process was the highest number in the organisation history.
And when I saw that, because that wasn’t only a win, so I was the first one who who is displaced and refugees winning that, I was also the first one who didn’t speak, I only spoke Arabic and English, so I didn’t speak the language of you know the the main language of the board, and the first language of the organisation. And I was the first one coming from with with that number of votes and progressing in in that way. And and all these things, and that made me feel a huge responsibility. And I felt those hundreds of hundreds of employees all over the globe in more than 40 countries. They believe in this message, and now I have to make it happen. It is my, it is how the message that I was giving and and all that, and then I felt that experience, and what I’m sharing about LinkedIn and the other things for me.
Can you imagine how many people in all those different locations – I mentioned more than 90,000 people – they are, in a way or another waiting, craving, want to see such message. So that’s why I’m saying there is so much power there until now, I’m trying to understand it. I’m trying to see how I can leverage that and all that.
And I have to admit I get also communication from policymakers in different countries. I do presentations sometimes to boards of directors in some organisations, or an HQ unit or a director in our senior management team in an organisation. Sometimes I did few for politicians in certain countries around the topics, trying to explain that, trying to share the message and all that.
So I feel like it is helping in a way or another to you know, contributing to achieving that message or vision that I talk about, which is reimagining the system, reimagining leadership, reimagining governance, reimagining how we do things, and try to think about it in a different way, a more effective, more efficient and inclusive. So yeah, it comes with a sense of responsibility. And I know that I say so many things when you ask me a simple, straightforward question. But I also like you know, I tell you what’s coming in my head.
Ka Man: No, that’s great, it’s great. It challenges me, and it challenges all our listeners as well to really think deeply, not superficially, about these big, big challenges that face the sector. It’s quite easy, like, you say, to keep things quite surface level. But actually to give yourself sorry, give yourself the space and time to really think deeply. Some of it might be uncomfortable. But to actually challenge yourself to, to face up to that.
48:11: Chapter 4: Leading with humanity through complexity
So staying with that idea, what would you say to anyone listening who may be a leader in the humanitarian sector who might say, okay, I like what I’m hearing, I like this empathetic, vulnerable style, it resonates with me. But I don’t know whether the teams, the communities, maybe I don’t know the stakeholders that I work with, I don’t know if that’s what’s expected of me, whether that is too – not radical, but too different – to what the role requires. Sometimes really hard decisions, especially now, have to be made, and I know that it will impact on people, have adverse impacts on people. So what would you say to someone who might be grappling with this like, how do you reconcile that, making difficult decisions on behalf of an organisation while keeping your values and your vulnerability – making that visible as well. Have you got any thoughts on that?
Ali: Yeah, that’s exactly that’s leadership. That’s what it means. Because I think things are not straightforward. Being a leader, especially in this sector, and especially with what’s happening right now. It’s not clear. We are all as as leaders struggling and trying to find answers to big questions, and and as as leaders. We are in in a dilemma between what we stand by the principles, what we learned and what we have to do right now, and unfortunately, the majority of us, we are taking so many unpopular decisions that is out of our control, and we don’t want to take them. It’s came because we are pressured as leaders and as a system. So I think feeling that way is totally normal, and it is part of being a leader within this chaos that we are facing. I think the main important part is to try to sit and think and reflect. That’s one of the key things. And while doing that, try to assess, because it is important to keep your eyes on the North Star, on the the goal on the long term but also looking at what the present, how to deal with the present. But remember the big picture.
So I think that’s one of the challenging things about being a leader. I did close some offices. I did close operations. I did terminate many contracts before I went through situations where I had to cut a service that gone to a community. And and I took those decisions because I am, in a way or another part of this system, and I am, in a way or another, a leader who took several roles in this system where it was defined by a grant or a contract, or, or, let’s say, a a change or a high level top decision, or a policy change, or something like that. So it is part of being this chaos is part of the the atmosphere where we are leading.
But I would say that it’s very important to reflect and and reach out and remember the power of community. I believe that one of the things that helped me so much when I was taking those tough, unpopular decisions where I was in this dilemma between the organisation direction and the pressure from the donor or XYZ. And what I stand by is my team and the community around me, and talking about things together, and try to find solutions together, and all that, because you can reach several things if you are leading: from your own perspective and experience, and etc. But you can reach further and do further if you are doing that with the others.
So I would advise all of them one sit and reflect and think and assess things so that you build your respect perspective on the different angles there, two, work with with the team and your network, and the other leaders. And I always, I think, one of the things that I learned so much in this sector to all the crisis that we saw happening in the sector, and then all those different countries that good leaders and people will find each other. They will find each other, they will collaborate together, they will communicate, they will engage together, they build something from there.
So my advice to those leaders that you mentioned, which is the majority of the leaders right now: reflect, find the others. And try to leverage the power of the community around you and those others who could support you in taking the right direction.
And if you felt that was a bit of not action-oriented I would say, you know what you will not lose anything. Just reach out to someone who think you think that is a good, strong leader, or someone who has different way of looking at things, or maybe similar way of looking at. Just reach out to someone else and be like, I want to talk to you about something. And you could also reach out to me. That’s one of the things that I do with differently. This is sometimes challenge their assumptions. Other times work with them to find answers. Other times work with them to find different and better questions. And you know we are part of one community, so I’m sure there are so many people would step into support in thinking together.
Ka Man: I’m just curious, have you encountered anyone recently who’s challenged your thinking, in a positive way?
Ali: In positive and negative way, and many [laughs]. I think that’s one of the things that many people they don’t see. I get so many messages, also some people accusing me, or something, or saying putting me in a box that I belong to XYZ party, or I have XYZ agenda or something, and I have a dialogue with them.
There was someone who – it was really interesting, someone wrote to me and he said, reading one of the things that I wrote. He could feel so many things, but he said, what would you say about, he mentioned a few arguments there. And then I was like, thank you, of course I am aware that I am on thin line, because I know that also with the way I write. Sometimes I have, you know I am on a thin line between defending and attacking a certain principle or a value, and questioning something that we built on it, and all that. I think what I liked about the engagement with that person is that he spoke from totally different perspective, that challenged many assumptions that I have, and many of the things that I was talking about, and what we agreed to do. And hopefully he will publish it soon. He reached out to a media platform and he told them, we want to publish this.
So we decided that this disagreement that we have, we want to publish it in in one of them, like on a media platform, so that people could also see different perspectives engaging in a respectful way. So yeah, that’s the that’s the thing.
And I want to tell you something that I usually tell my friends and colleagues. I enjoy listening to podcasts and to some people who has totally different opinion than mine. I think the podcasts that I enjoy listening to the most those podcasts who are totally far in the other direction. And the main reason is because I could see what’s happening in the other direction.
In the beginning it was a bit painful to hear those thoughts that you could feel disrespectful. You could feel they are not even a human. They could feel they are attacking human rights, they are attacking equality, XYZ. It was painful process for me.
But then I started finding joy in being able to listen to a different opinion that totally on the extreme side of what I am trying to advocate for trying to understand that opinion and trying to build a perspective that is also acknowledging that there are many people disagree with this and take a decision, that while I know that many people are disagreeing with this, and I am ready to have a dialogue about that, and engage about that, I’m going to proceed with this.
And I really think this is one of the things that all of us must practice, the ability to understand what’s happening on the you know, the other side, the one that advocating for something else or or that, and many people they were asking me about, how did I see certain shifts in policies, in economy, in different direction? And I said, because technically I try to listen to all the different sides of the story, and then built my analysis based on on that.
So to go back and answer your questions. Yes, it happened many times. It happened once, and we had a very respectful dialogue about that, and we decided to even put it publicly. And it happens frequently and sometimes, unfortunately, some people they do like an attack on my personal website was hacked before. I got several threats, several times some people said, you are going to lose your career. Other some people told me, oh, that’s not the right step to take, and that I think to say right. Now, if you want to get employed at certain level or something. So yeah, I get, I get all these things. But I find it is part of the process, you know. Of course not everyone will agree. And of course, people will have different perspective. And my, one of the things that I want to say to all those who are listening, and to all the leaders, no matter what you do, there is someone going to be not happy about it. Whatever you do, someone not going to be excited. So, so yeah, it’s part of the journey. It’s part of the process.
Ka Man: When I asked you that question, I said, has anyone disagreed with you, challenged your thinking, you smiled. And then you went on to share these, this anecdote, and these experiences. And what I think makes you stand apart, Ali, is that you actually really welcome and invite in this difference. Now, of course, it’s easy to say you should listen to people, listen to broad perspectives. But you’re actually saying, come on, I want to hear it. So you invite it, you invite it into your mind and ears through listening to podcasts that are with opposing views. There’s not many people would be really comfortable in that space, saying, I actually really want to hear someone whose mindset, values, ideas are completely polarised to mine. But the fact that you you actively engage in that, I think, is quite different, Ali [laughs], I think some people can’t even tolerate a TV programme just in the background if it’s not their cup of tea, they have to turn it off. No, I don’t want that in my space. So I think that’s a very interesting approach. You know, our podcast is called Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives. You know, you are literally inviting in fresh perspectives, even if they’re not particularly welcome ones. So that’s actually something that’s food for thought for our listeners.
Ali: Yeah, and I also want to mention something that, it’s super easy to when you see someone saying some messages like the one that I share and post, and maybe now some people are listening. They would be like, oh, this guy, he’s, you know, they would build very positive opinion or thoughts about me. And yes, of course, I try as much as I can to make a positive change. But also, you know, I’m a human. I made tonnes of mistakes, I made…
I’m not perfect in my journey in working in 13 different countries, so many different cultures, so many different environments, different levels, different organisations. I was trying to understand and learn and grow. And that came with so many mistakes. And so many times, I didn’t say the right thing so many times. I didn’t do the right things so many times I said and did something that I thought was right. And then, after weeks or months, or even years, I realised, oh, that wasn’t right. And I was growing. And I think what many people they don’t know about me is that I grew in the sector. And the reason why I’m saying that is because I was in my country as a child, as a teenager. And then, after that, my adult life it was jobs in the sector as a local staff, as international, and I was building my understanding of what are my values, what I stand by, what are my principles? Who I am, my identity, and all that in all those different locations. Because in my early twenties I was leading emergency response in X location, and then mid twenty, as the same late twenties, the same – pop, pop – so that my adult life and my understanding of who I am was shaped by those countries, and I sometimes when people, sometimes I try to explain that I understood the meaning of some things and the feeling of some emotions from a country.
So I always say that I understood what love means in Afghanistan. You know I’ve heard about love. I talked about it. I read about it, I said I love, but when I was in Afghanistan I understood what does love means, because I love the country. I love the people. I understood how deep that could be. What’s that emotion means and feels. And then in in Nigeria it was caring what caring means, how you feel it, how you, how you, practicing like the meaning of that emotion. And and there, like early thirties, and being in peace, came from South Sudan when I was working in a hard-to-reach area in the bush, and then moving between different locations and all that. I found peace in that country, understood what it means, and it was in my mid-twenties. And before that, being in in Iraq, and and understanding what fear mean, what that feeling, that emotions, how you are feeling something that being anxious about something being worried about something, and how to let go of certain things. And XYZ. I think, for me, I was growing in that and that journey, and that gave me so many lessons. But lessons they didn’t come without a tax. And the tax was that while I was the angel of many people’s stories in so many people’s stories, unfortunately, sometimes I was the devil in many other people’s stories. And I’m not proud of that. But I made mistakes. I failed so many times, tonnes of times and try to build from there. So I just you know I am a human, and being a leader is also being a human. And you take that you build on it. You understand. You continue, and you practice, and you grow from there. And I think that’s one of the things that many people they relate to when they read what I write, because I admit being emotional about things. I admit being concerned about something, I admit failing in something, I admit and acknowledge all the other emotions that are not success delivering. And and you know, being happy. So I acknowledge the other emotions, because that’s how I feel. I that’s how I live in every single day.
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66:05: Chapter 5: Ka Man’s closing reflections
[Music]
[Voiceover, Ka Man]: Thank you to Ali Al Mokdad for sharing his remarkable journey and challenging us to think differently about what it means to be a humanitarian leader.
One of the things that strikes me most about this conversation is Ali’s willingness to sit with complexity – to invite in difference, to admit uncertainty while still providing direction. His insight that “we are all struggling and trying to find answers to big questions” isn’t a weakness in leadership, it’s honesty that we need.
In our next episode, Ali shifts the message from his personal reflections to strategic big picture thinking. He shares his analysis of where the humanitarian sector is heading in the next 6-12 months, what the funding cuts and geopolitical shifts could mean for how we work, and practical insights for how we might navigate the complexity ahead.
So join us for part two, coming soon: “Inviting in the chaos: strategic insights for humanitarian leaders in 2025.”
Please support this podcast by leaving us a review, sharing this conversation, and subscribing on your favourite platform to be notified when a new episode drops.
Thank you for listening to Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives from the Humanitarian Leadership Academy.
[Music ends]
Note
This transcript was generated using automated tools. While efforts have been made to check its accuracy, minor errors or omissions may remain.
Episode produced by Ka Man Parkinson, July 2025.