12th August 2025
What happens when someone who anticipated the sector’s funding freezes looks ahead to what may be coming next?
💭 “Chaos is part of this ecosystem we are operating, and we’ve been operating on the edge of that chaos… So it’s very important when you are rethinking your models right now, you have an opportunity. Please don’t waste a serious crisis.” – Ali Al Mokdad
In this second instalment of a wide-ranging conversation with the HLA’s Ka Man Parkinson, Ali Al Mokdad shifts from personal reflections to strategic analysis. Drawing from his cross-sector research and global networks, Ali shares what he sees on the horizon – economic turbulence, policy vacuums, and fundamental shifts in how humanitarian work may need to evolve.
In this conversation, hear Ali’s take on:
- What he sees coming next for the sector and why ‘inviting in the chaos’ and designing for disruption is now essential for humanitarian organisations
- The AI transformation timeline: what will actually change in your day-to-day work
- Leadership resilience strategies for navigating prolonged uncertainty without burning out
Crucially, Ali offers hope grounded in realism. Building on the authentic leadership reflections from Part 1, this conversation provides both the strategic intelligence and emotional resilience tools that leaders need to navigate whatever comes next.
Keywords: Humanitarian leadership, strategic planning/scenario planning, humanitarian AI, economic challenges, UN reform, South-South cooperation, policy vacuum, crisis management, organisational transformation, digital transformation, funding challenges, resilience, reputational risks, cyber security, humanitarian innovation.
Chapters
00:00: Chapter 1: Introduction
02.27: Chapter 2: Zooming out: scanning macroeconomic and geopolitical horizons, South-South cooperation and UN reform
38:34: Chapter 3: Digital transformation: AI adoption challenges and cyber threats
56:08: Chapter 4: Leading through uncertainty with resilience and perspective
64:50: Chapter 5: Closing reflections from Ali and Ka Man
The views and opinions expressed in our podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of their organisations.
Note
This conversation was recorded in July 2025 ahead of the AI in humanitarian sector report launch event mentioned in this episode hosted by the Humanitarian Leadership Academy in partnership with Data Friendly Space on 5 August 2025 . Ali was a member of the panel alongside Dr. Cornelia C. Walther and C. Douglas Smith. View the session recording and transcript.
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About the speakers
Ali Al Mokdad is a strategic senior leader specialising in global impact operations, governance, and innovative programming. With a global footprint across the Middle East, Africa, and Asia, he has led complex humanitarian and development responses through senior roles in INGOs, UN agencies, donor institutions, and the Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. Ali Al Mokdad is known for driving operational excellence, advancing inclusive governance, and designing people-centred programmes that hold both purpose and impact at their core.
Ka Man Parkinson joined the HLA in 2022 and leads community initiatives including the Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives podcast and the HLA webinar series. With 20 years of experience driving international marketing and communications across the nonprofit space, Ka Man has led impactful campaigns for the British Council and UK higher education institutions. Passionate about creating meaningful change through compelling storytelling, Ka Man crafts audience-focused content that informs, connects and inspires global communities. Ka Man co-led the world’s first global study into AI in the humanitarian sector, with the report launched in August 2025.
Related reading
Explore topics mentioned in this conversation that Ali has explored in his writing.
- Early Strategic Assessment of UN80 Reform Initiative
- AI Diplomacy: The New Chessboard of Foreign Policy
- Unlock Efficiency at INGO HQ
- Open to Work, Rebuild
- Quantum Humanitarian
Episode transcript
Chapter 1: Introduction
[Music, voiceover, Ka Man]: Welcome to Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives, the podcast brought to you by the Humanitarian Leadership Academy.
[Voiceover, Ali]: This sector is organised complexity. Different networks interacting with each other. And chaos is part of this ecosystem. We are operating and we’ve been operating on the edge of that chaos. So it’s very important when you are rethinking your models right now. You have an opportunity. Please don’t waste a serious crisis. We are facing now a serious crisis. Don’t waste it. Take the opportunity of rethinking what you are doing by using adaptation as one key lens of looking.
[Voiceover, Ka Man]: I’m Ka Man Parkinson and today I am delighted to share with you part 2 of the wide-ranging leadership focused conversation I recently had with Ali Al Mokdad. If you haven’t already done so, I urge you to tune into part 1: Leading with vision and heart: reflections on humanitarian leadership with Ali Al Mokdad. It’s a deeply moving and authentic exploration of what it means to be a humanitarian leader in 2025, and is a conversation that will stay with me for a long time.
In this second instalment, we switch gears and take a strategic look at potential factors coming down the road that humanitarian leaders need to acknowledge. According to Ali, it’s about inviting in the chaos and preparing for it. He urges us to zoom out and look to the wider landscape and trends affecting the humanitarian sector, from global GDP to AI diplomacy. Throughout the conversation, Ali speaks plainly and candidly, highlighting potential risks but also practical opportunities for adaptation and change at the individual, organisational and sectoral level.
So tune in, grab a pen and paper as you might want to take notes along the way, and be ready to be taken on an analytical journey across the sector with Ali.
[Music fades]
Chapter 2: 02.27 – Zooming out: scanning macroeconomic and geopolitical horizons
Ka Man: So, Ali, when we caught up on a call before recording this podcast, you’d mentioned that you were part of a panel discussion on a webinar, and you were talking about changes that you can anticipate coming up. And you anticipated the funding freezes that obviously widely impacted on the humanitarian and development sector so radically earlier this year.
So what are you sensing now? I mean, obviously, I’m not holding you to this – you don’t have a crystal ball [laughs]. But what are you sensing now on what’s happening now in the second half of 2025, going into 2026. And do you think, because your insights are always, I think, paired with practical action and steps based on your professional experience and your personal experiences, do you think that it’s possible for us as a sector to prepare for this?
Ali: So the things that I see, or the things that I say usually are coming mainly from my analysis of how the different networks are engaging with each other, and that comes from my belief that the humanitarian development sector, or aid in general, is not functioning as an ecosystem alone. It is interacting with other ecosystems, like international affairs and foreign policy, like media, trade and other things. So I look at different ecosystems, how they engage with each other, and how they could impact each other or affect each other. And when I do that I come with, you know, some thoughts. They could be concerns. They could be opportunities, they could be risks, etc. So I don’t like to say 1, 2, 3, 4. This is what will happen. I like to say, you know, I’m seeing this. I’m expecting this. Maybe there is, you know, some trends there, something like that.
And I think in general, I am concerned about the global confrontation that we are seeing, rising and rising, and that’s mainly yes, the conflicts like Ukraine and Russia, and what we are seeing in Middle East and other places. But this confrontation language that I see in foreign policy, it’s risky. So that makes me a bit concerned. And this political tension between the US and China, and the confrontation and conversation between the US and EU. That doesn’t end well. So those things they concern me.
But of course, when I go back and look at the impact of this confrontation of political tension between those different powerful countries or institutions, this also takes me in a direction of the global economy or GDP slowdown. I am deeply concerned about a potential GDP slowdown in the economic growth to fall below 3% by the end of 2025, and maybe get a bit of stability by early 2026, with possible impact on countries, communities, people. And of course, the sector. This concerned me. And this is one.
And number 2, I am seeing there is this, again I’m still looking at politics and impact on economy. I could see this, I want to call it policy vacuum. We saw this no policy paper with Afghanistan. Now I am seeing that with Syria. I feel this actually puts the humanitarian sector under pressure, which means the countries when they don’t have a policy, and they have this we call it no policy paper or policy vacuum toward another country. It puts the humanitarian sector in a dilemma. Operational one. Yes, it is also linked to the financial situation and the funding. But also we are struggling from compliance perspective, from access perspective and advocacy and few other things. So that’s one of the things that I see is happening. And it also concerns me, this no policy paper. And we saw it with Afghanistan. We are seeing it right now with Syria, and I am expecting more to see of that.
And then again, I’m still looking at overall economy policy level, how it could interact with the sector, the financial situation, the funding situation, and this budget shortfall that affected all organisations, NGOs, UN agencies. And we are trying to deal with that. Unfortunately, I’m seeing that’s happening more and more. And I think we are going to see that also in the EU.
But my concern is that it’s also associated with reputational risks, because I could see how publicly NGOs and the work we do is being questioned, and the impact that we deliver is being questioned, and our fit for purpose is being questioned and what we are delivering. So it concerns me that it is not only financial limitation and financial challenge and the budget shortfall. It’s also a reputational risk associated with that, and it is being publicly happening, and we don’t have the foundation or the microphones that could help us to channel a different message.
And I want to add to that, I think I could see how the investments and the conversations around AI. And it is clear how there is this now AI diplomacy on the rise, and how it is in action, and how it’s shaping different negotiations. But I am worried about one, missing that opportunity, two, cyberattacks. I think the use of AI also comes with risks, which is cyberattacks on NGOs. And for those who don’t know NGO is considered as the second most attacked institution platforms when it comes to cyberattack. So I am worried about that happening more and more and more. And of course, I think you could see it right now, and unfortunately, in some crisis response, this misinformation that is happening in many they are using the AI tool to generate false narrative, or something like that.
I think on a positive note, I could see new players coming to the picture. They are trying to support with aid development, humanitarian efforts and the Gulf GCC countries. One of those players. China been one of those players, but it’s still, you know, it’s now a bit more active and few others, and there is a large part of also like communities and they are trying to advocate for increasing funding and all that.
But what one of the things that concerns me is the South-South cooperation. And what I’m concerned, there is not the cooperation that’s happening or the South-Global South countries trying to support in aid to Global South countries. No, that’s positive. But what I am concerned about is that in early conversations that I’m having with leaders in Global South, that they have interest in supporting other Global South countries, I could see how indirectly they are copying the North-South models.
So my concern here is that instead of having a new, efficient, sustainable way of different Global South countries supporting each other when they are stepping toward, you know, supporting in aid humanitarian development. We are going to see this. But it’s going to be another copy of same models happening again. So we have to live again through advocating for a change, advocating for localisation, advocating for all the different angles there, so I could see the different actors stepping into support, and this South to South relations. But I am a bit worried that if we don’t step in at early stage it’s going to be another copy of North to South models.
And I think many they are seeing, and they already heard about the UN reform, which is I think, on paper, it sounds, you know, on the way of making the UN efficient in the way you’re looking at the UN strategy in the way, looking at leveraging technology and all that. But I am concerned about different elements there. One, their engagement with the stakeholders, the wider stakeholders; two the timeline; three, the implementation and the impact on organisational culture and the people; and four, if there is a risk associated with pausing some activities while they are merging mandates and few other things. I could see different scenarios for the UN reform. Positive one, where they could achieve the mandate and the key pillars in the work stream, one that maybe they could achieve some and not all; another, that it might not be achieved.
But my concern there is that we’re looking at what might happen if there was a crisis, if there was an emergency situation. If one of those agencies is addressing a crisis while doing that reform. And is this timeline realistic? Are we doing it in a way where we are transforming the UN or just surviving a budget fall or something like that. So I think UN reform is going to identify so many things, and within this year, you know, they are focusing on looking at different mandates and the key pillars and 2026, we will start seeing the new UN, but I am worried that it comes with it needs a bit of strategical assessment, stronger communication and engagement and assessing risks.
One of the things that I could see at policy level from foreign policy perspective, that I am sure we are going to see at aid and international aid and humanitarian development side is the shift towards humanitarian only models. I think institutions and politics in general, they are questioning the development side of what we do, and the humanitarian side is still in motion, or they are prioritising lifesaving activities or humanitarian programmes. So I see shift toward humanitarian only models. And that’s one of the things that concern me.
And again, I think one of the things that I’m worried about this, and I want to call it a mild recession in early 2026, because I could see the global economic situation, and the GDP is slowing down in this year, and it is unfortunately it is alarming because, my analysis of the situation is that by the end of 2025, it’s going to fall down, maybe, below 3%. Early 2026, it might have a slow landing or a bit of stability. But we might have that mild recession in early 2026.
And I’m saying that with an assumption that this trade war will continue, and this situation of changing the approach toward tariffs between different countries will continue, and of course, the ongoing conflicts continue without ceasefire or peace agreements that doesn’t end well. So if that assumption that I just said didn’t change and wasn’t addressed at global level, policy level, we might see that economic slowdown which might affect different angles, including the sector.
And I do think that going back to technology and AI and all that, I don’t see major changes when it comes to the humanitarian development sector around AI this year, maybe more organisations, large organisations, elite ones might leverage it more, maybe more individuals will use it. But I think 2026, more will start using it, and by end of 2026 we will start seeing organisations administrative tasks dropping.
So I think in 2 to 3 years, 5% of administrative tasks, I’m not talking about roles, I’m talking about tasks might start dropping. And again, this analysis or assessment is coming from looking at other ecosystems. So I’m not looking at ours, the sector itself. I’m looking at other ecosystems, the AI, the foreign policy, economy and media, and how they might impact the sector.
So to go back and answer the second part of the question in general, I want to say that I am optimistic on the long run. I am realistic when it comes to the present. I always try to be as realistic and logical as I could be when I look at the current situation. But when I think about the future, I’m optimistic. I believe that we can make some changes, and I believe we will make some changes. So I think it’s very important for organisations to number one at leadership level, especially at headquarter. It’s very important to understand and look at the other ecosystems, because if they are making some shifts right now, they are thinking, rethinking their governance, their programmes, their operations, their structures, their financial situation. They must also understand that we are interacting with the other ecosystems. So they must put time in understanding foreign policy, international affairs, media, trade and economic situation. And this global confrontation that we are having and few other things, because looking at that from macro level, is going to help them, understanding how to navigate the situation.
Number 2, which is one of my main recommendations, especially right now, within the efforts of organisations looking at their structures, and how they design programmes and all that understand that this sector is organised complexity, different networks interacting with each other, and chaos is part of this ecosystem we are operating, and we’ve been operating on the edge of that chaos. We saw that so many times now during Covid, in so many other crises, you could see it at country level. You could see it at global macro level. Chaos is part of this ecosystem. Why I’m saying that. I’m saying it because it is important for you as a leader or an institution, to design your models, programmes, operations, strategy, etc, with the lens of adaptation as a key principle, because, as I mentioned, chaos is there. It is part of the ecosystem, conflicts are there, climate change is there, the access risks are there, the operational limitations, they are there. Financial limitations, been always there, and all the different things are there. It’s part of this ecosystem. So chaos is, you know, we are operating on the edge of that. So it’s very important when you are rethinking your models right now you have an opportunity. Please don’t waste a serious crisis. We are facing now a serious crisis. Don’t waste it. Take the opportunity of rethinking what you are doing by using adaptation as one key lens of looking. How would my programme survive chaos? How my operation would operate when there is chaos, how my strategy would be able to adapt to different situation, the same for the model and the structure, and the other things.
Number 2, the world and what’s happening across the universe from all the different angles is changing super-fast. So it’s very important to try to look at the efficiency of your culture. And here I’m not talking about, you know, cutting a department, cutting a team, cutting a position, etc. I’m talking, looking at your organisational culture. The things around the number of meetings, the type of structures that you have, the way you are dealing with designing a strategy, the different conversation that you could have at different levels, how decisions been made, the engagement within different teams and all that. So you need to focus on optimising the workflow because things are changing so fast. So you have to be at the same speed and go even faster. And that’s one of my main concern, because things are happening, and we are still spending time discussing, without the same speed to take the action.
Number 3. I highly suggest for organisations leaders at any size. Please do scenario planning. Please do that. I just mentioned a few things. If you dig deeper you will find more, and maybe some of the things that I mentioned, they are logical. Maybe I’m just exaggerating. But just do scenario planning. Look at different scenarios, the likelihood of those scenarios, what opportunities would come with them, the risks or the challenges that will be there. Where do you fit within the new atmosphere or the ecosystem? And all those different measures please do scenario planning.
I think like when I was working in country operations, I would you do scenario planning even more than doing a strategy or more than doing just an operational plan because we would look at different scenarios, how we would operate and build from there, and do the different things. And when I worked at HQ scenario planning was one of the key elements that I would add when I was working at global level strategy, either if it was related to the organisation as a system, or if it was as programme. So please do scenario planning.
Number 3, I would highly recommend for organisations that working in the Global South or they have the Global South, as you know, they are from the global South. Build that Global South alliance. Try to step in further, in your role, try to leverage the networks that the other organisations that they have try to explore other modalities. Do you need to start a new programme or you can have a joint programme. Can you leverage another organisation operational setup? Or you need to have your own explore those joint programmes and joint operations and leverage that power of alliance.
And I also think, like it’s very important for the organisations that already taking certain steps to look at innovation, not as part of what we do, but as the foundation. So start looking at that and exploring how you could leverage those different tools, AI and the other things.
But from there, those actions, and what I just mentioned, they will take time. And to be totally transparent, I fully understand it will take so much time, and the speed that we have within the sector, unfortunately, doesn’t match the speed of those events happening and changing, and all that. So my advice mainly is one, remember, you are not alone in what’s happening right now. So if you are an international institution or a national one, try to focus on that partnership with the others, so that if something risky or negative started hitting the sector, you have the power of community at least to reduce the impact. Number 2, scenario planning and general analysis of different scenarios could be one of the things that at least help you understanding the bigger picture and how it will affect you and impact you, and you could start preparation. Number 3, please don’t waste a serious crisis. Use this as an opportunity, what’s happening right now with the budget fall and the financial situation to try to rethink how you do things.
So now, when I’m talking about macro level things. And I’m talking about policy shift. And I’m talking about economic situation and UN reform and all that. I think you have to do one of two things depends on the topic. Number one, engage. So either you step in to support, in advocacy, in lobbying, in resource mobilisation, and something to try to reduce or advocate for not having an impact on what we are doing as a sector and try to show the different side of the story. Number 2, strategic patience for some topics and for some things, because there are some things they are totally out of our control, and maybe the best way to deal with those things is to see what’s going to happen. But you are already doing your scenario planning and ready for what might come. So it is like hibernation, but with planning and being ready for what might come. Additional thing, I would say, yes, I fully understand, we are on a survival mode, but you could also have a strategic survival which means looking at the different events that they are happening, which is the chaos that is hitting the sector, or could hit the sector, and have things in place on how to adapt to the different things that are happening there.
And again, I am like the main reason why I’m sharing those is because I’m trying to be realistic. And I’m trying to share things that I could see from different ecosystems, but also to hopefully open your eyes on some. There are so many opportunities, and there are so many positive things happening out there. But it’s very important that you are also aware of the things that could come next. And unfortunately, with what we are having the global confrontation, the economic growth, the media situation, and the messages in the media and different things, they come with risks that could affect the sector.
Ka Man: Ali, that was a very, very comprehensive analysis of what may be coming up, and how we may be able to prepare ourselves mentally as well as practically, for the challenges that may lie ahead. So when I asked you, I didn’t know whether you’d have this question. I didn’t know whether you’d just be sharing some hunches. Well, that was very much a deep dive analysis with lots of quantitative data baked into that around GDP, around AI cutting administration tasks, looking at the macroeconomic situation, political landscape that’s obviously less conducive, let’s put it that way, to working with the resources and the hearts and minds that we need people on the ground to do the vital, not just life-saving work, but, like you say, the development work with the humanitarian-development nexus that you anticipate may start to have to change in light of this.
So there’s a lot to digest and unpack there, and I think that anyone listening who are interested in these insights, and if you are in the sector, why wouldn’t you be interested in hearing this? I’m sure that they will re-listen to this and take notes because it feels, that feels like consultancy right there for our listeners in the sector, humanitarian leaders, I think that advice of factoring chaos, not to be complacent, now, thinking the cuts are done, we’re regrouping with these leaner structures, we’re out of the choppy waters, a bit of breathing space. Your message, I think, is very much, i’s not, it’s not that – let’s factor in, let’s assume the worst that there’s more to come, and if the economic and political landscape changes, the tide changes against us further, you know what we’re going to do. Factor in that chaos, invite it in. Make it central in that scenario planning.
So it’s a bit like before thinking it’s a bit like before, when you were saying we were saying how you invite in that difference of opinion, when you’re listening to these podcasts, it’s inviting these unpleasant scenarios that you don’t even want to think about might be too difficult, might be heartbreaking for you to even think about it. But you need to systematically factor that in so that we are adequately prepared and not, well insofar as possible, and not just respond, when, should God forbid the worst happens. So, yeah, I think we could probably provide for our listeners this information in a written format as well, that helps to people to digest all of that analysis and recommendations that you’ve just shared.
Ali: Yeah. And I also like again, if you are listening to this or later reading this, please go on search like, don’t only build on what I’m saying, like, you know, go on and try to understand the other ecosystems. And I could say so many things about the humanitarian sector like the impact investment and how it’s happening now in different countries. And how many organisations are leveraging that, like the NGOs hyper model, the new model of doing the nonprofit activities while also generating revenue to support the nonprofit activities.
And I could also mention those things efforts around advocating for policy shift, and so many other things within the sector and the role of regional level and the merge of the different mandates and organisations, and within the UN. And all those different things.
But I chose to tell you things from other ecosystems, because I am one of those people who believe that we are, in a way or another part of a larger system, which is the other ecosystems interacting with each other. And that’s exactly how I knew, and that we are going to face those financial limitations and the budget cut, and all that, not only from what happened with USAID, but also the other donors is because I was paying attention and focus to what’s happening with foreign policy, international affairs and politics.
And the main reason why I was seeing some access challenges and operational limitations and the other things, because I was looking at things like no policy paper and the situation with policy, and how it will impact, and the same with the reputational risks when it comes to the media and the other things. So I’m just inviting you to try to look at other ecosystems. And I know here I’m talking high, level, big picture strategy, context and analysis. But even if you are working in an area level or site or etc. I think it is your right to have access to information. You must know. You, it’s your choice to decide whether you take it, build on it, or something like that. But you must know what’s happening. Both the positive and the negative, the opportunities and the risks.
And again, I think I want to say that again. Sharing those, I’m not sharing that that’s my opinion that we should have this, we should do that, etc. I’m just telling you that’s what’s happening. High level, big picture. My opinion is that not taking an action is the worst thing. Do something, do scenario planning, think, etc, etc, etc. Even if you are doing this strategic patience and sitting and waiting, do scenario planning, prepare, invest in your foundation. But I really hope that people found it relevant. I encourage you to do extra research. I encourage you to dig deeper into that. I encourage you also to ask questions and reach out, even if you don’t disagree with what I said, it would be good to have a dialogue and share with you. Why, I’m saying this, what’s the data that I have? What’s my analysis? And one of the things that I want to add here that I sometimes feel frustrated about is that these conversations about the other ecosystems, politics, the AI, and the economic situation, and all that. Unfortunately, I have so many conversations on that with people outside the sector more than those who are inside, because, unfortunately, sometimes in the sector, we just focus on what we are doing, not what the others are doing, and this makes it a bit challenging to look at that macro level and then zoom and go out to micro level. And all those different levels. So I encourage you, especially if you are sitting at high level decision, making position or team or unit or etc. Look at what the others are also doing, and how it will interact with what you are doing.
Ka Man: Well, this is a theme that is sort of coming across throughout this conversation, it’s to learn. Listen, and learn from others. That’s obviously, as you mentioned at the start, that’s a value that you hold dear. You’re like going back to the very start when you said your parents said, you know, to get ahead to learn to get an education. So that’s something that is, you know, you’re carrying out now through your work as a leader. It’s like making informed decisions or best informed the best that you can be, anyway.
So if you have any in the show notes, I can include links to some of those papers, or anything that you think that our readers might listeners might find of interest, so that they can read a bit more, because it’s obviously so vital that we get as many good sources of information to sort of help us in this, yeah, to make these difficult decisions going forward because there’s so many challenges that you’ve just spoken to.
Chapter 3: 38:34: Digital transformation: AI adoption challenges and cyber threats
So one of the factors that you just mentioned there was a technological landscape, and you mentioned that AI is coming into play, although you think that it’s not really there yet, it’s very early days in the humanitarian sector, which is actually, I think a positive thing, because it means that we can get a handle on, try to get a handle on it before things rapidly develop and accelerate.
Going back to that conversation just now, you mentioned AI diplomacy, which I thought was a very interesting concept. So that’s a new one on me. I’ve heard of ping pong diplomacy and panda diplomacy of the Cold War era. But AI diplomacy is very much a new development in 2025, very interesting but just sort of going more to a zooming in a bit closer. So you’d already mentioned some risks you’d said that NGOs are, did you say the second most attacked subject to cyberattacks.
So obviously embedding AI introduces new vulnerabilities that leaders have to obviously factor in. So it’s not just the efficiency gains – 5% administration tasks that you mentioned – so there’s opportunities, but risks that you’ve talked about.
So I wondered if you could maybe share with us a little bit more about this, as we, as you say, these next steps, these next months and year is crucial for embedding AI in the humanitarian sector. And actually, we’re holding a panel discussion on the 5th of August with the launch of our AI in the humanitarian sector report that we’re holding together with in partnership with Data Friendly Space, and you’re joining us for the panel discussion. So just ahead of that event, ahead of the report being released, and building on some of the things that you’ve just share, what do you think we need to consider as we integrate AI technologies into humanitarian systems? And what do we really need to be mindful of as we go down this path?
Ali: So when it comes to AI, you know, there are so many people who are optimistic. There are others who are pessimistic. I am realistic. Because I’ve been both, I could see the potentials. I could see the opportunities. I could also see the risks and the challenges. So I choose to be realistic and look at the current situation. And of course, AI investment is reaching billions and billions of dollars, and we could see how it is scaling over and over again, and the development of generative AI is growing further and many. They are saying it might reach more than 600 billion by the end of this year.
The way I look at it is that there will be opportunities, like, for example, within the coming year, like 2025, mid 2026, or until the end of 2026, AI will be as a co-pilot in report, writing, writing, proposals, advocacy, messages, translation, basic analysis. We will start leveraging more and more power apps, Power BI and those different tools that we have especially generative AI and large language models, but as a co-pilot.
So I don’t see in the overall sector major shift aside from leveraging it as a co-pilot this year and early mid next year. And of course, taking into consideration this is very important, that different organisations, they will leverage it and use it in different ways and some organisations might be ahead of others. So that’s just one thing to put there.
I also think that 2026, 2027, and beyond, we will start seeing administrative tasks going lower and lower. 2027, we might see 5%. Then it might by 2028, it could be 10%. That’s mainly administrative tasks. And it’s mainly because automation leveraging different power apps and the things within the ERP systems and the workflow. So we will start seeing some changes in how we manage our workflows.
But those different opportunities that around optimisation efficiency better data analysis, and supporting you as a co-pilot to do different responsibilities. It will come also with other risks like misinformation. I am speaking to leaders who are responding to crisis, especially in the Global North, especially climate related things, and one of their key struggles is misinformation. And how many leveraging AI for that.
Number 2, the cyber risks and the cyberattacks, I mentioned that before, but I think it will grow, it’s one of the key things will affect us and will come there.
And there are other things I think many spoke about it so many times. I’m not going to put all details around, it is the ethical consideration, the data protection and the other things. But I think, unfortunately, it is going to be different from organisation to another, from country to another from work to another. But one of the things that I always say when I speak about AI in using it and leveraging it within your strategy, within your day-to-day operation. Technology is not the problem – transformation is. The way you transform your organisation and integrate AI within your different processes and workflows – that’s the issue. The way you communicate with your employees and teams – that’s the issue. The way you start assessing the impact of AI on workflows and your organisation and the organisational culture, and how to deploy the different tools – that’s the issue. The way you design the tool that fits your organization and assess who’s going to use it, how it will help leaders, etc – that’s the issue. So it’s the transformation. It’s how you do that shift within your organisation.
And that’s one of the things that I have been witnessing firsthand for the past 3 years. Organisations, they have a tool, they want to deploy that tool and leverage that tool or roll it out. So many challenges coming because of transformation – pushback resistance, some not using it, some still using offline, some seeing that it doesn’t fit where they are working. It’s not tailored to a location. Some locations, they don’t even have access to Internet, some they are running on generator, they don’t have electricity, so some barely use a laptop, etc, etc. So it’s the transformation, that’s one of the key challenges.
And in the humanitarian sector I want to add to that supply chain is another challenge when it comes to AI and the digitalisation. And it’s very important to look at the supply chain elements, not only from the procurement perspective and which product you are going to use or leverage and platform, but also your data management. Because data is an asset you have, is very important asset you have. And then after that, how you are going to deliver that or deploy it or roll it out to the other.
So I think there are several things when it comes to AI and technology and all that. But my message is, don’t overestimate risks and underestimate opportunities, and also don’t overestimate opportunities and underestimate risks. Try to be realistic. Try to focus on the transformation. Try to focus on the best fit, not the best practice and look at it from the perspective of the organisational culture, how it will help us to achieve the goals that we want to do and how it’s going to help the different communities. Because the models that we have – either it’s fully digitalised or not, either it’s innovative or not, either it leverage generative AI or not, either it has automation or not. It’s not about the model. It’s about how the model is going to help you as an organisation to achieve your goal. The model is not the goal. The model is one of the things to help you to achieve that goal. So I think it’s very important. Be realistic. Look at the big picture, look at the best fit, and then assess both opportunities and risks. And don’t overestimate or underestimate any of them. Just look at what you can do to leverage those tools to support you on achieving your mission and goal.
Ka Man: That’s really interesting. Although the question is obviously around, centred around technology that the main thing coming out there for me is, it’s about assessing digital transformation – the processes and the people that will be using these tools, and the best fit for that, for your organisation. So obviously technological sort of benefits and functions and functionality is a key consideration. But it’s about aligning that and having that having that synergy so that there’s a, so that people actually embed it into their workflows, into their processes. Otherwise it’s a very expensive procurement process that could open you up to risk, your organisation.
Just out of interest. So you mentioned supply chain elements there, and that you have to give important consideration to the platforms. So I think, because obviously a lot of organisations INGOs, we are running on Microsoft a lot of us, so I think it would be logical for people to be using things like Microsoft Copilot. If they have a license to work informally as an individual using free, free things to get AI literacy like ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, and so on. So when you were talking about supply chain elements and deciding on your sortof supplier, are you talking about humanitarian-specific or more contextualized AI providers or solutions, and do in your, through your experience or knowledge, are there many kind of providers in this kind of space? Obviously not asking for promotion of any specific platforms [laughs], but I’m just curious.
Ali: It depends. If you are looking at it as an individual or institution, if you and if your institution is in the Global South, in which location or the Global North, which location. Because I have, you know, I’ve been asked this question so many times, I was supporting some organisations in finding answer to that question. But again, there are several elements there. From my perspective, I use all of them, and I was one of those low code developers and members in the OpenAI ChatGPT community. I am still until now, part of the Microsoft Insider programme. So I get to test sometimes new tools. I am one of the early users of Grok xAI, and I interact with and leverage different tools here and there, etc, and it’s mainly like one of the key things that I use it for is data analysis. You know, brainstorming sometimes to help me with some things in my day to day life and few other things, and of course try to optimise my workflow as much as I can. And that’s as an individual. So as an individual, be aware of the risks and leverage the tool that’s available in your location in your country and based on your need.
So as an institution is different. Because the first question I would ask you, do you have data management, strategy or data management framework? Because if your data is not clean organized and all that, then you are going to struggle in leveraging any of those tools. This is one. Number 2, it’s there is a huge difference between using if you have an ERP system or not, because if you are having an ERP system, you would choose an AI tool that could interact with your system and your processes. So you would choose something that could interact with that or something that could leverage API from one of those large language models.
But if you don’t, then you could you have a bit more flexibility. But you want to also choose one that could be and accessible to your teams in different locations. And there are many elements there, because I’m not sure if the realisation or the conclusion came to leaders in organisations or not. But this trade situation, the tariffs they will affect organisations depends on which tool and which platform that they are using based on the country because they are already paying for those services. So I can give a name for a specific platform. But I would say that you have to look at your data. You have to look at workflows, you have to assist your organisation and needs. And then, based on that. And one of the things that I want to mention that I have collaborated with organisations that took the approach of move fast, break things. So pick a tool, and let’s go. And I have collaborated with organisations that they established steering committee task force working group, wrote a guideline, wrote a code of conduct, pop pop pop pop pop, and they wanted to take the long run. Both they come with opportunities, both. They come with risks. So my advice is, look at your organisation. Look down before looking up. So look at your who’s working in the regional office? Who’s working in the country office? Who’s working in the area office? Can they have access. Would it be user friendly? Can it support them, etc, etc, etc, because you want to have also equal access to that tool? And there are so many elements. But I think from my perspective is depends individual institution and the other elements there. So it’s you have to do that full assessment before picking the right tool.
But if you are an individual and you want to leverage tool, why do you need it? What you are going to do with it? What are your needs? Pick what meets those needs because there is you know it’s your individual. So you can take your own decision. You can assist your own situation. But a group, it’s different. It require further assessment, further analysis, and looking at different elements, innovation, scaling, how it will help the teams that you have to empower them and be an additional competency, not only as a tool, but a tool that they could leverage in different things.
Ka Man: Thank you. That, I think again, that’s very well considered advice. Weigh everything up and do that analysis before making those decisions that are right for you as an organisation.
Chapter 4: 56:08: Leading through uncertainty with resilience and perspective
So this has been a very wide, ranging discussion, and I’ve really enjoyed hearing your insights and your experiences. Not all of it has been easy. Obviously this is a difficult space. You’ve shared a lot of those challenges that we face collectively, and that you’ve faced as an individual. And, as I said before, I think one of your messages is like, let’s not be complacent. We need to carry on planning, you know, scenario, looking at different scenarios, modelling and planning for it. And I’m thinking some listeners might be thinking, well, this is good advice, but this hard, just trying to sort of catch our breath at the moment, coming to terms and adjusting to the new the new normal, so to speak. So what advice do you have for leaders, or indeed anyone in the sector who may feel like they’re at risk of burning out right now, or they may be at risk of losing their jobs because there’s still uncertainties. What advice do you have? Because you’ve said that you faced a lot, of lot of challenges in your lifetime. But you continue to hold on to that optimism. You’re realistic, but you hold on to that optimism. So how do you? What advice do you have for people who may be in this difficult space now, personally and professionally, and how can they keep going and have that energy to keep pushing ahead?
Ali: One of the key things, and that’s what I also do, and what I try to do with leaders, or when I write is acknowledge the feeling, acknowledge the situation. It is tough situation. It is difficult in a new level, in a new way, and it is challenging. And it’s normally, and it’s part of being a human and part of being leader to and be confused and be in this mood shift and being worried, and being not sure, is totally fine, so acknowledge your feelings. Seek the support. As a community. We are stronger as a team. We are stronger. So it’s very important to seek support from others. And I’m not only talking about the emotional side. I’m also talking about the brainstorming, I’m also talking about the thinking. I’m also talking about troubleshooting things together like, try to speak to others. Don’t isolate yourself.
Number 3, and this is mainly for leaders. And this is what I do, especially in time of crisis like this. You have to and take the long view on things you have to keep your eyes on the North Star. You have to keep your eyes on the goal because we are living in an environment where you have the social media. You have the communities within the sector, you have the communities outside the sector. You have all that you could see and feel, the sense of crisis, not non-stop. There is always something happening. It’s super fast speed. Things are happening non-stop. So you have to keep looking at your goal, your north star and interacting with what’s happening right now. So when you get this sense of daily sense of crisis, daily sense of things are collapsing, daily sense of challenges daily sense of things happening. You have always to keep your eyes there and look at this long view on things. And this is one.
Number 2. We are not a speedboat. We are a ship, ship takes time to move, and it’s very difficult to see the ship progress, because it’s moving slowly. Speedboat is fast. You could notice that you could see it moving super fast. You have to understand as large institutions or a sector. We are a ship. So maybe you think, when you are looking at it, that it’s not moving, it’s stuck. There is no progress. But in reality it’s just moving slowly. So you have to. When you look at big picture. Remember, this is a ship. It’s not a speedboat.
Number 3, and I think for me, because I don’t get too high, I don’t get too low. I’m always consistent with things like, you know, engaging with others, communicating, expressing my thoughts, expressing my feelings, walking around listening to book doing things like I try to be consistent with other activities. So that’s why I advise everyone, do other things outside the sector outside work, regardless of what they are, just engage with things that they could give you different type of perspective and meaning.
Another thing I want to say, and it’s always one of the things that I tell people and tell myself, progress is not a straightforward line. Growth is not always straightforward line. Sometimes it’s zigzag, other times we take a few steps back so that we are able to take steps forward. So if you are feeling right now that you are stuck, it is one of those moments in progress where you are stuck. You don’t move forward. It’s just a way to sit and reflect. If you feel that you lost your job, you lost the meaning, you lost identity, etc. etc. It is part of progress. Sometimes you fail so that you learn from it, you understand? You look at new perspective. Then you build up, and sometimes you go through all those different feelings. So you have to understand that growth and progress and development is something that is not straightforward. It’s not that simple, it’s not that easy. What is simple is to go into the feeling of being a victim, the feeling of being just sad and down and frustrated and angry and upset without standing up again. That’s so simple, because if I want to go into the sad and smooth that’s the easiest thing to be. I will just be sad, and then I am sad, and there are so many things would make me sad and frustrated, and angry and upset, and all that.
But the thing that is not that simple is the ability to stand up and understand that that failure and the challenges and the issues and all that is part of what’s happening. And the last thing that I want to say here is something someone told me, and I thought about it so many times. If you can change your situation, change your perspective. So if you feel you are stuck and things are happening outside your control, and there is nothing you can do about it at all. Then maybe look at it from different perspective. Put a perspective, change your perspective, and think about it in a different way.
But all those are the things that for me personally, they help me to and have that mindset of dealing with the different challenges in a time of crisis, and taking care of myself and my wellbeing. And of course I have different threshold when it comes to stress and anxiety and frustration and anger and sense of crisis. But at the same time I always have long view on things. I always keep my eyes on the big picture and the goal. I always acknowledge that progress is not a straightforward line. It’s zigzag, and sometimes you go steps back, and sometimes you don’t even move, and I fully acknowledge and understand that we are not the speedboat. We are a ship, and things takes time. You have to learn how to understand the how slow things could be, and you know, find yourself in that slow movement.
Chapter 5: 64:50: Closing reflections from Ali and Ka Man
Ka Man: Thank you, Ali. It’s very wise words. I’m just reflecting on our whole conversation. I feel like we’ve kind of, we’ve come full circle now see started off with your very personal story and the challenges that you faced and the lessons learned, sector challenges, well the challenges you face joining the professionalised humanitarian sector as an employee. And then we’ve talked about the challenges in the sector itself, big challenges on the global scale, and how we, as organisations, might be able to respond to that, and as individuals -through to now those steps to take care of ourselves and not feel overwhelmed, and I think that that takes us back to those values driven conversation that we had earlier, at the start of our conversation.
So thank you so much for these insights. It’s been incredible. I think this has been an extraordinary conversation, and I mean that in the literal sense, extraordinary, because there’s been, we’ve covered the whole spectrum of emotions, at least you’ve taken me on that journey [laughs]. The full spectrum of emotions that we’ve had personal open discussion and sharing on your side as well as the analysis, the astute analysis, the very sort of strategic lens that we need to look at, look through when we’re approaching our work. So there’s been, there’s so much for me to unpack and digest, and I’m going to try and follow the example that you lead of inviting in these different ideas, and absorbing that, and making that a part of the, a part of your learning process. I like to think that I do that, but I think you were really are really next level [laughs] in terms of doing that in terms of all of your learnings or potential data feeding into your mind whether that is qualitative, quantitative experiences, small experiences, big ones.
So I think honestly, I think that there’s so many invaluable insights and experiences that you’ve shared there, very generously with our listeners. So thank you. I just want to close by asking, what message would you like to share with our listeners?
Ali: First, I want to thank you so much for the opportunity to you know, speak from the heart, and share my perspective and my story and I, as I mentioned before, I think you are doing a great job, and I’m really happy and proud to see these efforts within the sector. I believe we need more conversations like this.
I think my key message to everyone is, spend time to think and reflect. It’s important to have self-awareness, context awareness, and look at all the different situations, not only the risks, but also the opportunities, and not only the failures, and also look at the achievements and the wins. So I think it’s very important. Take time. Sit, reflect, think. I also think that in this sector. We are all passionate about what we are doing, which is amazing, but passion alone is not enough. We must have a strategy. And so my advice to all the people who are listening, and what I always tell myself, passion alone is not enough. It’s important, but it’s not enough. You must have a strategy. Keep your eyes on what matters, and keep your heart open to those who are around you and those who are working with you and collaborating with you and those who we are serving and supporting. And again, if you can change your situation, change your perspective. So I hope that this conversation today gave you a different perspective, or a similar perspective or unique perspective, or any perspective, because I think it’s important to put things in perspective and listen to the different perspectives. So thank you so much for this opportunity. And I hope you find it insightful and inspiring.
Ka Man: Absolutely. I think one of the takeaways that I have from this conversation is you said a couple of times. If you’re not sure, do something, do something, act.
Ali: Yes.
Ka Man: So I think that’s something that I’m going to take away from this. So I look forward to. Oh, I’m glad to say that this is not the end of our conversation. The conversation will continue at our AI in the humanitarian sector research report launch events on the 5th of August, where you will be one of our expert panellists alongside Dr. Cornelia C. Walther and C. Douglas Smith from Data Friendly Space. So I really look forward to connecting with you again in that in that session. But in the meantime, thank you, once again Ali Al Mokdad. Thank you.
[Music]
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[Voiceover, Ka Man]: This concludes our humanitarian leadership focused two-part podcast with Ali Al Mokdad. The original 2.5-hour conversation I had with Ali in July took me through a whole spectrum of emotions. His authentic, vulnerable leadership combined with sharp analytical thinking really challenged me both intellectually and on an emotional level as we explored together what it means to be a humanitarian leader.
Ali never claims to have all the answers but shares his thinking and invites you to do the same. His message is clear: it’s our duty to think critically so we can evolve our work to really make a difference to the communities we serve. Be informed. Act. Remember your North Star and your why.
I hope you have also gained useful and unique insights from this conversation with Ali. Please consider leaving a review or comment to let us know your thoughts. Thank you once again to Ali Al Mokdad and to our listeners for joining us for today’s episode of Fresh Humanitarian Perspectives from the Humanitarian Leadership Academy.
Note
This transcript was generated using automated tools. While efforts have been made to check its accuracy, minor errors or omissions may remain.
Episode produced by Ka Man Parkinson, August 2025.